News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by arinlen on Monday May 09, 2022 @05:57PM (#31320334)
> Huge quantities of COVID money were pumped into companies that absolutely did not need it (...)

Since when is revenue and profit dictated by anyone's sense of fairness? That's an awfully moralistic and judgemental take on everyone else's needs and desires.

Sadly this blend of judgemental view of everyone's money already hit small things like buying groceries. Damn the have-nots for generating inflation by actually stocking on the decent food that the well-to-do used to buy.

Do you see any problem in anyone spending their own money in any way they'd like?

Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by PragmaticPulp on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:10PM (#31320482)
I was referring to PPP loans from the government that were forgiven: https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-o...

These were supposed to keep at-risk companies from failing when the economy crashed, but then the economy didn't crash and instead it was just a huge government handout of free money to most companies.

Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by majormajor on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:28PM (#31320688)
I think you're putting too much weight on "did the economy crash" here. As in, "wow, the economy didn't crash, we shouldn't have done anything" aka "wow, Y2K didn't ruin everything, we shouldn't have updated all that code" or "we didn't get hacked, why did we bother applying security updates" or similar.

"We want to prevent the economy from crashing hard and long" is how I'd phrase motivations. Certain sectors did crash immediately, and yet the overall blast radius wasn't very large and a lot of stuff bounced back immediately.

That seems like a great success.

Loans being forgiven to generously even for companies that did NOT see a sustained dip in demand, on the other hand, is a more targeted specific problem, and a lesson to learn. But if you learn too broad a lesson like "stimulus is dumb" then you just drive yourself back off a difference cliff next time something exceptional happens.

Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by nradov on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:33PM (#31320748)
A better lesson to learn is that shutting down major sectors of the economy was dumb. It was a total overreaction, and proved to be completely ineffective in controlling the pandemic. If politicians hasn't done that then there wouldn't have been a risk of an economic crash in the first place.
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by majormajor on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:41PM (#31320821)
> If politicians hasn't done that then there wouldn't have been a risk of an economic crash in the first place.

This is naive and ignores the real sequence of events.

Things like conferences were getting canceled before the first official government actions in the US. Groceries were being hoarded. People were paying attention to events. The government sticking its head in the sand or just repeating "everything is fine, stay calm" messages wouldn't have prevented any impact.

Uncertainty is an economic killer. And if you remember early on, that uncertainty also led to a lot less controversy over the canceled events and restrictions than arose later. (Though in retrospect, even many "paranoid" estimates back then were far less than a million US deaths...)

Some level of stimulus was almost certain to be necessary regardless of official Covid actions in March 2020 unless you wanted to just let those companies and workers drown as people chose to change their behavior.

(The "restrictions should've been loosened earlier" argument is a much more reasonable one, but IMO still ignores how much of this was already local by winter of 2020, and also that at that point the initial economic damage was done.)

(That's before getting into the recklessness of assuming future severe novel diseases won't be even more deadly on limited early data...)

Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by TAKEMYMONEY on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:19PM (#31320596)
Not just companies; megachurches, antivax orgs, even a Jan 6 rioter got a PPP loan. The most egregious examples are starting to be brought to justice: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-convicted-27-million-ppp-...
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by aaomidi on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:14PM (#31320525)
Just reminder that if you know any abusers, report it to the DoJ.

These people who bought homes and shit with ppp are going to go to prison. I hope at least.

Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by tdfx on Monday May 09, 2022 @11:45PM (#31323212)
I don't think there's enough investigative power to find all the people who were abusing the system. The level of fraud that I personally witnessed of people filing hundreds of PPP loans for non-existent businesses was in the high 7-figure range, and that was just 2 guys I happened to hear of. There were likely hundreds of scammers doing the same thing in every major city, each stealing millions of dollars each.
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by dboreham on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @09:21AM (#31326774)
It should be possible to identify these people very easily with a SQL query. To qualify, a business had to have been running for some time (years) and have payroll. So run a query for "loans issued to entities with banking history < 1y and w-2 withholding payments == 0".
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by LorenPechtel on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @03:45PM (#31331704)
Good luck figuring out where the money actually went, though.
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by dkasper on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:14PM (#31320531)
And now recession seems to be here and they will probably get bailed out again.
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by spamizbad on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:16PM (#31320558)
Small business owners are a very powerful political force. If you are handing out checks to regular people (their employees) You basically have to give them something or they will wreck you.
Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by jallen_dot_dev on Monday May 09, 2022 @06:49PM (#31320894)
If the PPP was intended to help struggling businesses, but your business wasn't actually struggling due to the pandemic, then you didn't need it. It has nothing to do with fairness.

> Do you see any problem in anyone spending their own money in any way they'd like?

"How dare you tell the bank robber to return the money he stole. Who are you to tell him how to spend his own money? That's awfully moralistic and judgmental of you."

Re:Day trader army loses all the money it made in meme-stock... by dboreham on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @09:26AM (#31326836)
The original PPP was intended to give money to all businesses with employees, to incent them to not lay off workers (it was a loan, repayable if the company reduced their workforce). The second version of the application form added a clause (after media bruhaha) about "potentially being affected by the pandemic", so would exclude some small subset of businesses that could absolutely guarantee that nothing about their future revenue and input costs would change aversely. Any concept of actually having been negatively affected in the past, prior to application came much later.