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A comment on Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?. Parent comment

Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by ggariepy on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @09:42AM (#31260258)
The purpose of a union is to create a labor cartel which tends to standardize the price of labor above the rate at which the market would likely set it. IP clauses and non-competes are a small part of the issues plaguing our industry. Putting constraints on the labor supply is probably not a good thing; it leads to the market for labor relocating to less union-friendly climes. Ask anyone from Detroit how well that worked out.
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by turtledove on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @09:46AM (#31260324)
Software engineering doesn't rely on factories, and less labor friendly areas produce worse products (ask Boeing about that.)

Apple and Google aren't going to just shut down in California because a union asked them to give some concessions that materially improve engineers lives.

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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by biorach on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:09AM (#31260649)
> The purpose of a union is to create a labor cartel

No, that is not the "purpose of a union"

Some unions, especially in the USA, have functioned in such a way, but this is far from universal.

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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by Bancakes on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:01AM (#31260547)
'Labor market' is a purely American concept. You shouldn't be switching jobs constantly and relocating. It takes a toll on personal life and makes no sense anyway.
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by clawlor on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @11:05AM (#31261523)
It's still a "market" so long as there are supply and demand, regardless of how frequently a given participant is conducting transactions in that market.

The housing market is probably a good example. Many participants probably only purchase property once or twice in their lives (less even if you consider the case of a married couple buying a house, that's 0.5 purchases per person).

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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by ggariepy on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @01:33PM (#31263468)
I've worked for three different employers and have never left this spare bedroom. Relocate? Where? To my living room? :-)
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by Workaccount2 on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:18AM (#31260791)
Unless you live in a communist country, you are part of a labor market.
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by ggariepy on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @01:41PM (#31263554)
I don't think there are any purely communist economies operating in the world today, and even if there are, there is still a market. It's a badly distorted market that performs poorly, but a market nonetheless. If you have human beings involved, there's a market; it goes with the territory as part of the human condition.
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by turtledove on Friday May 06, 2022 @02:14AM (#31281859)
Workers coops are neither labor market nor necessarily communists. If everyone democratically operates the company and shares equally in profits, there's no wage labor being performed.
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by Bancakes on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:21AM (#31260826)
Among many offers, I chose a company on absolutes, not relatives. The culture is good, and I want to make serious products that serve a purpose. I get paid less than my peers but enough for a living. Is that communistic?
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by Workaccount2 on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:27AM (#31260927)
You are simply pricing in external variables to your compensation, which is part of how markets work.
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Re:Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers? by Bancakes on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:29AM (#31260963)
I get what you're saying but I wouldn't program web apps for 3x the pay even. I don't "feel" the American way of switching jobs and being a general purpose programmer.
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