News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by zo1 on Monday May 02, 2022 @12:16PM (#31237115)
The problem is government which has an incentive to "feed everyone" which means cheap food by any means necessary. Food prices must go up, let them naturally go up. That means less food for poorer people, which in turn slowly means less people (lower birth rates, poor and bigger families struggling, etc), until we reach equilibrium with our environment under the terms we accept.

It's the only fair way to do it, IMO.

Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by vkou on Monday May 02, 2022 @12:49PM (#31237573)
Unlike you, neither I, nor the government are keen on seeing bread riots.

Civil wars and regime changes aren't a lot of fun to live... or die through.

Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by Beached on Monday May 02, 2022 @12:25PM (#31237253)
I overall agree with this statement. I'm mostly disagreeing with the yield assumption. the cubins do not grow the same yield per acre as we do. they may have food security/sovereignty, but they do it at the cost of more land then otherwise could have done.
Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by tomrod on Monday May 02, 2022 @01:06PM (#31237843)
Do you support social Darwinism?

It is "dismal" but unnecessary through good governance. We really do have enough resources to ensure moderate standards of living.

Political upheaval would be appropriately considered a market failure.

Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by treeman79 on Monday May 02, 2022 @01:46PM (#31238367)
With enough effort all counties could be like Venezuela!
Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by vkou on Monday May 02, 2022 @01:48PM (#31238391)
What, a petrostate that mismanaged its major industry, that was later sanctioned and embargoed by its biggest trading partner for political reasons?
Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by tomrod on Monday May 02, 2022 @02:14PM (#31238724)
That's basically what I'm hearing too!

    item = np.random.choice(["macroeconomics","Venezuela"])
 
    meme_du_jour: f"tell me you don't know about {item} without telling me you don't know about {item}" 

    print(meme_du_jour)
Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by throwaway0a5e on Monday May 02, 2022 @12:41PM (#31237470)
>Food prices must go up, let them naturally go up. That means less food for poorer people, which in turn slowly means less people (lower birth rates, poor and bigger families struggling, etc), until we reach equilibrium with our environment under the terms we accept.

Unless there's something in it for them by their own assessment people will not make sacrifices of that magnitude.

Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by thephyber on Monday May 02, 2022 @01:58PM (#31238503)
You are ignoring the time scales, locations of the worst effects, and lots of other side effects like food protectionism and the planning that farmers have to make 9 months before the food shortages happen.

Government isn’t directly responsible for food prices, but they frequently involve themselves because social order/stability requires reasonable food prices. When store shelves are empty in a neighborhood/ region, riots break out. Riots work on the time scale of hours/days. Families having fewer kids is on the time scale of years. Farmers planning for likely yields/costs is months/years.

Your idea of “fair” suggests you would just shrug at the famines caused by Stalin and Mao regimes and blame the people because they weren’t willing to pay enough. When people are food desperate, social order, norms, and predictability break down. This is why governments have strong incentives to intervene to ensure reasonable food prices.

Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by mcguire on Monday May 02, 2022 @04:13PM (#31240296)
One interesting thing about the green revolution was that food went from 1/3 of the average American household budget to 1/6.

Oh, and to paraphrase Hitchhiker's Guide, programmers will probably the first ones up against the wall when the revolution comes.

Re:Historic fertilizer crunch threatens food security by KarlKemp on Monday May 02, 2022 @01:31PM (#31238156)
Sure, but why should people‘s income decide who lives and who dies? I’d say let’s kill all the psychopaths first. Like those fantasizing about mass starvation.

On a less violent note, every country has seen birth rates decline as it became richer. Modern western societies only grow through immigration, and even many countries in, say, Africa, have seen drastic declines. Humanity doesn’t expand until it unavoidably runs out of food, that’s a 19th century idea.