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Re:Getting Started in Rails is Insane by ajross on Monday October 17, 2011 @07:12PM (#3122914)
This goes beyond "can't use a bash shell". I've written chunks of IP stacks, multiple implementations of HTTP as both clients and servers, and done a ton of server-side socket level code. I'm reasonably confident that I meet the requirements.

Yet every time I need to look at Rails, I run screaming because of the huge, steaming mess that learning it has become.

The point about C++ was real. It's exactly the same feeling I get when I bump into boost nerds who honestly think template metaprogramming is the path to the future.

Re:Getting Started in Rails is Insane by jshen on Monday October 17, 2011 @08:16PM (#3123118)
I've come to the conclusion that large frameworks like this are meant for people that use the framework on a regular basis and can therefore keep it in their head.

I do web dev daily, so rails is great for me, but whenever I have to deal with someone's chef deployment setup my head starts to hurt. But they do devops everyday and chef makes their life easier so they get a lot of value out of it.

Re:Getting Started in Rails is Insane by bradleyland on Monday October 17, 2011 @09:04PM (#3123283)
Calling Rails a "huge, steaming mess" could hardly be considered objective. Rails has a well organized module and class structure, and solves many common problems. It's a large framework, and when frameworks get large, they take a lot to learn.