There are a bunch of fancy gay clubs in Dubai though, nobody goes to prison for being gay.

According to US state department there have been “ no known reports of arrests or prosecutions for consensual same-sex conduct.” since at least 2015.

regardless, if that law is still on paper, it will be used against people, if not for just being homosexual, then as a cover for some other agenda. All countries have such laws that are practically unenforced but when the government wants "to teach somebody a lesson", these laws are the first ones brought out of their arsenal.

I think they would just make something up if they wanted someone and there was no applicable crime. I would actually feel better about knowing I would be accused of something I actually did and that there is nothing wrong with, rather than having to worry about them planting child porn or framing me for murder. Governments don't care about truth and framing people is usually quite simple, but if the truth is enough and they don't need to harm my reputation, it would probably be even simpler for them to go with the truth.

Are you visiting UAE often?

You didn't read past the second sentence, then?

I did. It does not explicitly say anything about UAE, and can be interpreted in multiple ways, hence the clarification.

Nope. A friend of mine was thrown in jail and tortured for about a week over a facebook photo of her and her girlfriend looking at eachother and smiling -- with a comment from a friend that said "you two look so cute!" She endured about a week and a half of starvation, sleep deprivation, and being yelled at and sexually harrassed by guards at random intervals before her trial, trying to elicit a confession that she's gay. She lucked out: her cousin was a judge, who managed to take over the case, and dismissed it. She fled the country, thankfully.

There are lots of cases of guys being thrown in jail and being fined for something as simple as long hair or wearing earrings. Not sex. Not "spreading ideology". I'm not just gay, my facebook page also has a picture of me and my partner, and my relationship status, "married," is public. And I'm locked out of facebook forever, so I can't even update any of that.

Given the experience of my friend and of dozens of cases that I've read about, no, people don't just get jailed for sex or speech. It goes way beyond that.

Maybe, maybe not, we don't know the entire story. We don't agree with torture obviously, but at the same time, if that story is true, it may fall under publicizing homosexuality which I mentioned in my post, and the law is the law.

> simple as long hair

Depends on what this long hair is. Many bedouins have long hair for example, and it's perfectly fine.

> wearing earrings.

Earrings are for women. Effemination of men is not allowed.

> Not sex. Not "spreading ideology"

Those two examples can fall under spreading ideology (context dependent for the long hair obviously).

This was before 2015, no?

It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast.

> There are lots of cases of guys being thrown in jail and being fined for something as simple as long hair or wearing earrings

Even straight up crossdressing in public hasn’t been illegal since Nov 2020.

That was in 2019.

I follow tens of Emirates staff on my instagram and it’s really hard to square this with all the profiles of openly gay Dubai residents I know.

Was your friend perhaps a local? The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from.

> The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from.

does not square with

> It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast.

Not needing to worry about this is a privilege that I wouldn't enjoy. Glad to hear this isn't a problem on your Instagram, but that's damned thin evidence for me to risk my life for.

It’s also not a problem for luxury hotels openly hosting gay clubs on premises.

What exactly would be sufficient evidence?

> What exactly would be sufficient evidence?

You know, after such a long (and recent!) history of violent and targeted oppression, that's a really tough question. Do you understand that? To start with, maybe another 5 years without any shit like what happened to my friend before I'd even consider it? So, there isn't precisely a threshold on "sufficient evidence" -- I'd be looking for a complete lack of evidence.

Luxury hotels can afford to bribe cops and judges. The organization is safe (as in, the organization won't get in trouble). But, I don't particularly care for gay clubs. What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me? Moreover, what if a random citizen doesn't like the look of me? Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay. Safety isn't just about laws, it's also about policing (which doesn't always follow the law, and good luck challenging anything as a non-citizen), it's also about culture.

But now you've got me curious. Why are you so invested in convincing me that it's A-okay to visit a place that is notorious for its mistreatment of a specific population that I belong to? I'm not about to try to convince some Sikhs that rural USA is safe, right?

> Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay.

The people who I follow on Instagram that are openly gay on their profiles are also real people I have met many times in the UAE. These aren’t instagram friends, their profiles were just relevant in response to you bringing up social media profiles.

UAE is probably one of the least likely places in the world where you might be assaulted for being gay or trans. The government cares about optics more than anything, and would come down hard on anyone doing something like that.

> What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me?

Nothing, UAE cops are nothing like Western cops. They’re paid very well and would rather avoid creating unnecessary trouble in their lives.

If you’re white, it’s extraordinarily unlikely that you’d end up having a negative interaction with UAE law enforcement unless you go out of your way to make powerful enemies.

I’m not saying UAE is great, I’m not saying it’s not a terribly corrupt place that can turn incredibly nasty sometimes. I’m just saying it’s a perfectly safe place for gay westerners.

> If you’re white, it’s extraordinarily unlikely that you’d end up having a negative interaction with UAE law enforcement

I am, but you're doing a fantastically bad job at selling this.

Besides, those laws are typically selectively enforced precisely because they can, they're ideal for the purpose. Don't like someone, tough. Don't like someone and their gay? Nailed and no recourse because ahhh gay person.

I think your five years sounds about right, if I were in that position I might add another five or just simply never spend a minute longer in a place like that than I had to.

their -> they're

> As long as you're not engaging in homosexual sex

I think most would agree this is 'being gay'. The most important part, for some. So yeah I think it's fair to say GP would be arrested unless s/he actively hides who s/he is, which is a gay person.

Nobody has been arrested in the UAE for consensual same-sex conduct since 2015. There are a lot of gay clubs openly operating in Dubai.

If that is your definition of "being gay" then I doubt anyone was "born gay" as many claim.

I dunno man, I knew I liked girls when I was four.

Before you school us on sexual immorality, maybe you should define morality.

Morality as defined by God. Muslims use Islamic Law as the Source of Truth for morality.

Unless you're trying to be obtuse, it shouldn't be too hard for you to understand why.

Just because a culture or people are not perfect doesn't justify their oppression.

Ehh, ya know, that is just a polarizing characterization. Most people just don't agree with what is happening to them. It does not mean most of those people that support their freedom and right from persecution would travel there or that it supports their views directly. Genocide isn't cool, ya know. Freedom limiting social systems aren't either, but that is a separate issue.