Who wins in Ukraine?

Re:Who wins in Ukraine? by federoccco on Friday April 15, 2022 @05:31PM (#31046111)

As a person who was there in Ukraine in 2004, and in 2013-14, as a somewhat neutral observer of Orange Revolution and Euromaidan, the first paragraph already throws you an Oliver Stone -level propaganda jab. Everyone in Ukraine was well aware what political party was supported by the West or by Russia. To say that pro-western and anti-Russia attitude in Ukraine was fabricated by the West is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

This article plays the favorite game of Russian apologists — engage in bad faith with any pro-Ukrainian argument, and in good faith with any Russian one.

It fails to account for Russian troops in Crimea (when discussing 2014 referendum), it fails to account for Russian influence in Ukrainian politics (billions of funding) and of course there is no agency of Ukrainian people, only NATO and Russia.

And of course “US invited an invasion [of Ukraine]”, sure, lets find a more apologetic way of saying “Putin invaded Ukraine”.

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Re:Who wins in Ukraine? by beachwood23 on Friday April 15, 2022 @09:00PM (#31047975)

Thanks for reading and for sharing your experience. Much appreciated.

I'm not trying to spread propaganda. I'm doing my best to make sense of the different narratives being told by different parties. It's all we can do in these crazy times.

You have many good points. This article was not comprehensive and could have dug deeper into many reasons. I'll respond to one bit:

>To say that pro-western and anti-Russia attitude in Ukraine was fabricated by the West is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

I never used the word 'fabricated', and I don't think I said anything that robust. I said "funded", which is different. Ukraine is a large country, and there are plenty of different political opinions and movements to pick from when supplying funding.

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