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Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by scyzoryk_xyz on Monday April 11, 2022 @04:57PM (#30994914)
I use trains here in Poland and although there have been big improvements, a lot of them are only a facade.

Long distance PKP trains are still late everyday. The regional trains in my city tend to be over-packed, and from a technical pov they’re more like larger diesel buses than trains.

However, in response to the earlier comment and this one as well, I would have to say that investment doesn’t always mean immediate visible effects. The biggest investment to make in rail is in the infrastructure. You don’t feel as a passenger which parts of the track are old and which are new, and they are pretty expensive to build and maintain.

I also would wonder how much freight rail is in that investment, because that we don’t see or feel at all.

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by hilbert42 on Monday April 11, 2022 @06:44PM (#30996080)
I can't help but feel much of this argument is relative. From my experience (I'm no longer a European resident) almost all of the European rail network that I've traveled on (and that's quite a lot) beats much of the infrastructure in Anglophone countries—and I'm referring to both track and rolling-stock).

(...Perhaps my view has been formed by the fact that I've come from a low base in Anglophone countries, so everything seems much better in Europe.)

___

Edit: I must be fair, there was one European route that I traveled on that was truly substandard and that was the single-track Kaiser Franz Josephs Bahn (Emperor Franz Joseph Railway) from Vienna (Wien Nordbahnhof) to Prague via Gmünd — not the good two track route that goes via Břeclav and Brno (which I've also traveled on).

The railway track of the Kaiser Franz Josephs Bahn was in dire—most desperate—need of maintenance when I traveled on it and that was a few years before the Iron Curtain fell and Czechoslovakia was still communist.

There's no doubt that's the worst track I've ever traveled on (it's one of those experience one never forgets). The train traveled so slowly that we passengers thought we could get out and walk faster, moreover the carriages rocked wildly from side to side and we had a constant feeling that the train was going to derail at any moment (had it gone any faster then I reckon it certainly would have derailed). I have no idea whether that track is still in such poor condition today or not (at the time I was on the understanding that the track had deliberately not been maintained since the War because of Iron Curtain politics).

Nevertheless, it was by far the exception in my experience.

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by nicoburns on Monday April 11, 2022 @07:30PM (#30996565)
As a UK resident, I can't help but wonder which group you're including the UK in. We're both a European and an anglophone country!
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by hilbert42 on Monday April 11, 2022 @08:08PM (#30996900)
Sorry, Brexit is clouding my judgment. I should have said Continental Europe! ;-)

That said, to be fair I found the UK track maintenance pretty good although trains weren't as punctual as they were in most of Europe. Likewise, the carriages/comfort was somewhat primitive compared to most of what I've experienced on the Continent.

I have to say it's quite some years since I've traveled on British Rail and I understand things have improved considerably in recent years (one only has to watch Portillo speaking to camera from a UK train carriage to realize that).

My worst (and repeated) experience on UK Rail was the horrible Gatwick Express which was often notoriously late (especially the time when it broke down midway to the airport and I missed a flight to New York and lost a whole day in the process).

Perhaps my most memorable experience—it's what always first comes to mind whenever I think of rail travel in the UK—it's the horrible apology for a cheese sandwich that I was offered (and at an enormous ripoff price) on an 'overnighter' from London to Edinburgh (I've witnesses, they suffered the same fate). I can't say I've ever eaten a worse one.

Presumably, the latest food offerings have also improved somewhat since then.

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by nicoburns on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @05:23AM (#31000360)
My subjective view is that punctuality and comfort have improved in recent years (especially the new rolling stock on the London-Bristol and London-Cornwall and London-Edinburgh lines is excellent), but the food is as bad as ever, and the prices are getting worse. If you want food on the UK railways then buy it at a station not on the train if you can!
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by hilbert42 on Wednesday April 13, 2022 @12:27PM (#31016676)
"...but the food is as bad as ever,"

Right, I suppose the quality of food has always been one significant differentiator between the UK and Continental railways. As mentioned, I haven't been to the UK for some years now but over the many times that I have (I'm actually a UK citizen), I've noticed a steady improvement in the food, especially so in London. Over the years, I've noticed lunchtime and takeaway meals improve out of sight and the number restaurants serving foreign food multiply manyfold (I've found London's Indian restaurants pretty much second to none—reckon Indian must be pretty much considered an endemic food by now).

This begs the question why hasn't the food on UK rail improved. Perhaps we should send the executives responsible not to the Continent but to Japan to see how it should be done: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japan-train-food.

(I can attest firsthand at the accuracy of that article, the food on Japanese trains is truly excellent. There's only one drawback: if you're going to some obscure destination that you've not been to previously then don't let the food (or anything else) distract you. Whilst stations in big urban centres often have station names in both Japanese and Roman scripts outlying ones often don't. You either remember the hiragana or kanji scrips accurately for the station names or you count the number of stations accurately from where you embarked—or you do both. Luckily, I've never missed a stop but I've had a few narrow escapes.)

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by CaptainZapp on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @04:45AM (#31000112)
My take: It depends on the line / company. But generally I think the UK is sub standard and extremely expensive compared to continental Europe (expensive, even compared to Switzerland).

Good experience: Virgin first class from London to Manchester. That said, it would have been prohibitively expensive if we hadn't booked the tickets well in advance. Pre-booked and restricted to a specific train they were around 50 quid each. If we would have bought the tickets before boarding the train they weould have been well over 200£ each.

Bad experience: The company that makes my blood boil even thinking about them is Northern. Whenever I have to use them I seriously consider travelling by couch. They are just such an appalling experience and a real sorry excuse for a train company.

Overall I don't think privatization of the railways were a good idea. Not when specific lines are dished out to specific companies and don't allow competition on them.

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by emteycz on Monday April 11, 2022 @05:11PM (#30995112)
Even a diesel bus on rails is much more efficient than a diesel bus on roads. It's also much easier to electrify than a fleet of buses, an much more ecological when you do (because no significant battery). Thus, anything on rails is a win.
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by scyzoryk_xyz on Monday April 11, 2022 @05:25PM (#30995298)
Agreed - especially in the context of how unbelievably clumsy the US is at doing trains.

Here in western Poland however it was a bit easier - lots of tracks remained since 19th century. And with these diesel buses popping up, an opportunity presented itself to go relatively low investment and lots of political bang. Those trains are usually way too packed in my personal experience.

Similarly, Pendolino high speed rail was developed and implemented to huge fanfare. Only the tickets ended up being so expensive that basically only the upper-upper-middle class wants to take them. Why take the high-speed train at double the price to get you there twice as fast, when all you need is to get there?

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by vondur on Monday April 11, 2022 @09:04PM (#30997320)
American rail is hyper optimized for freight, not people.
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by luciusdomitius on Monday April 11, 2022 @06:06PM (#30995711)
Well. In Germany the middle class flies or drives, the lower class takes the bus and the upper-upper-middle class drives teslas or takes ICEs
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by carlhjerpe on Monday April 11, 2022 @06:44PM (#30996087)
So who takes the train?
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by komadori on Monday April 11, 2022 @06:58PM (#30996232)
I think: ICE = Inter-City Express (train)
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by mjhatrick on Monday April 11, 2022 @08:18PM (#30996974)
(As opposed to Internal Combustion Engines, which may have caused the confusion)
Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by carlhjerpe on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @02:47AM (#30999443)
Indeed it was what confused me. I'm Sweden our vocabulary is: Train, Commuter train, Subway, Tram

Then again, our fastest train does 200 kph, so we only have "old shitcans". I reckon this is because we're 12% the population of Germany on 126% the area. It's not worth the investment with high speed rail.

Then again these numbers are a bit exaggerated, you could essentially cut Sweden in into 2 pieces just above Stockholm and you'd end up with one relatively densely populated area and something that would more or less resemble Alaska in population.

What's great about the north is it is our own little Alaska in the sense that we have a metric shitload of iron ore so pure you can put it straight to the furnace, keeps us southerners afloat for sure.

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by axiomsEnd on Monday April 11, 2022 @05:57PM (#30995625)
Poland made a huge step back when it comes to trains after 1990 - there is a good book by Karol Trammer "Ostre cięcie" about disastrous cuts.

On the other hand - Pendolino is a real step forward, and at least Cracow is trying to improve general quality and invest in intra-city trains, which maybe not the fastest, but still much better than buses or trams.

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by scyzoryk_xyz on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @01:36AM (#30998978)
I highly disagree on Pendolino and I am quite angry about it. It has been around for what, >5 years now? I have still yet to take it because it is so expensive. It’s basically the Concorde of Polish trains - it cost a fortune to build and only rich people take it because it speeds up travel time by ~30%. Meanwhile, standard speed trains, which are still capable of covering the same distances in reasonable time, are late, are underinvested and are overcrowded. What we would need is an affordable high volume train network, not trains that cost the same as planes and look cool.

That’s my rant on that subject. On the other hand I do think the one great thing we got out of the previous system is a well developed train network. Even with all of it’s faults and issues, trains remain a great way to get around Poland. And that is something to be grateful for. I’ll check out that book, thanks!

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by jwr on Tuesday April 12, 2022 @02:32AM (#30999343)
> the one great thing we got out of the previous system is a well developed train network

Amusingly enough, most of this is something we got from the systems before that, or simply other countries :-) Just look at this map: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_kolejowy_w_Polsce#/m...

See how the rail network is much denser in the western regions? Now compare it to this map: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziemie_Rzeczypospolitej_pod_za...

Re:Europe is investing heavily in trains by ithinkso on Thursday April 14, 2022 @11:05AM (#31027912)
Poland A and B, you can see it on a lot of maps, not only rails