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Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by gameman144 on Monday March 28, 2022 @11:36AM (#30831632)
Wait, what? Where is this rigorous standard for what constitutes an acceptable post, which excludes personal conclusions?

There's a restaurant down the street from me that's real trash. I sense that it's not doing well, since it's always empty. Do I need to go run a survey before I could share that?

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by a_shovel on Monday March 28, 2022 @11:50AM (#30831783)
One important difference is that, even when you don't specifically claim so, one can assume that you have been to the restaurant down the street enough times to observe a trend, whereas BitwiseFool's post seems to be pure speculation from an outsider's perspective.
Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by BitwiseFool on Monday March 28, 2022 @11:57AM (#30831873)
>"whereas BitwiseFool's post seems to be pure speculation from an outsider's perspective."

Yes, that is indeed what it is. I wasn't using weasel words to claim my assertion was based on empirical evidence. I'm just sharing my own perception and I'm a little bothered by the implication that I somehow have to provide citations in order to simply share my perspective.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by lamontcg on Monday March 28, 2022 @12:41PM (#30832436)
You are actually explicitly using weasel words.

You've made a really strong claim that they have an "incredibly high false positive rate".

Then you've just thrown "I sense" in front of it all to make it okay that you're basing that on zero evidence.

If you think they've got an "incredibly" high false positive rate you should go do the work to have some kind of factual evidence to base that on.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by BitwiseFool on Monday March 28, 2022 @01:52PM (#30833406)
>"Then you've just thrown "I sense" in front of it all to make it okay that you're basing that on zero evidence."

Yes, that's being used as a contextual qualifier. "I sense" = this is my personal opinion, not an assertion of objective fact.

>"If you think they've got an "incredibly" high false positive rate you should go do the work to have some kind of factual evidence to base that on."

Why? Do you have some evidence this is a bad thing? If you think my use of "I sense" is harmful, you should go do the work and provide some factual evidence to back up your position. I see no citations.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by zasdffaa on Monday March 28, 2022 @02:17PM (#30833702)
> I see no citations.

well, if you believe science has any value then we might agree on this <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method>

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by BitwiseFool on Monday March 28, 2022 @02:31PM (#30833884)
I was calling out someone criticizing me for not providing citations whilst they also failed to provide citations. So that seems fair game to me.

Truth be told, though, I feel like your statement is insinuating that I somehow don't value science. Or, that I've never heard of the scientific method?

My main point of frustration is how people are expecting a level of rigor that isn't congruent with the medium. This is a forum, not an academic journal or a policy-making body. I don't know if "reverse gish gallop" has been coined yet, but I sense that when one finds someone they disagree with they can adopt the mindset that everything that person has said must be backed up with a citation. Virtually no one is equipped to perform a dissertation defense on a forum post, so demanding an ever increasing list of evidence is an effective means of discrediting the content without actually engaging with it.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by lamontcg on Monday March 28, 2022 @04:44PM (#30835335)
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

People holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague, you shouldn't be defending it.

Just do some work to have a basis for your opinions. It is intellectually lazy not to do so, and you've got the Internet, Google and Wikipedia to help you get started, you don't even need to leave your couch and physically go down to a Library.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by BitwiseFool on Monday March 28, 2022 @04:47PM (#30835364)
>"People holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague, you shouldn't be defending it."

What's your basis for this? Show me your work.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by zasdffaa on Monday March 28, 2022 @05:16PM (#30835677)
You can't admit other people have a valid objection so you just twist words and misrepresent others to avoid admitting your initial post was content-free and of no value. Please just stop.
Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by BitwiseFool on Monday March 28, 2022 @05:21PM (#30835758)
>"You can't admit other people have a valid objection"

How can it be a valid objection if you've provided zero evidence to back it up? You are the one who decries a lack of supporting evidence, yet you've provided none in any of your replies so far. Particularly: "holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague" because it looks a lot like a personal opinion of yours with zero presented evidence to back it up.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by lamontcg on Monday March 28, 2022 @06:40PM (#30836460)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

It wouldn't need a name if it wasn't common.

And here's a book on it for you:

https://www.callingbullshit.org/

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by BitwiseFool on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @10:24AM (#30842929)
I don't see where it backs up your claim that "People holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague". Don't pearlclutch about presenting opinions without evidence without providing the evidence you expect from others.
Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by zasdffaa on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @04:23AM (#30840128)
Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by BitwiseFool on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @10:21AM (#30842882)
I don't like the duplicity of demanding citations and grandstanding about how bad it is not to provide any, while simultaneously making claims with "zero evidence". If they'll call me out on it, I'll hold them to their own standard right back. This is despite the fact that I don't believe everything needs a citation.

In any event, this is getting more and more contentious and we should probably all just leave things be.

Re:Using the “Z” symbol could lead to prosecution in two Ger... by zasdffaa on Monday March 28, 2022 @12:06PM (#30831995)
You don't say if you'd been to that country, or experienced anything relevant that you presented, or anything to explain why you felt this way. As such, you give me nothing to ponder on nor any reason to agree with you (or even disagree).

NB: don't take it personally or feel bad, it's just a random interweb guy's disagreement!