It's like it stems from some sort of self-hatred, as if we have this belief deep down that we are wrong or corrupted and whatever we are not MUST be good.

These naturalistic fallacies are certainly a strange, ilogical thing, but one at the core belief of _many_ people. I wonder if it's a western thing though and if we don't find it in other cultures as well.

I can understand the logical leap that people took to get there:

Most processed food in western diets are unhealthy for you. Usually because the processing basically means very high in sugar, and relatively low nutritionally. It doesn't take much to go from that data point to a rule of thumb "natural = good".

Especially if you combine it with a mistrust of large corporations that you believe prioritize profits over ethics (not exactly a huge leap) - where you think that the stuff they make is bad, but "natural" things they didn't have a hand in cant be corrupted by them.

Real life is much more complex than that, but i can see the chain of logic people use.

It's not really a western thing, it's just that "natural" stuff is much more expensive to produce in a modern industrial world, so --- naturally --- it's perceived as higher quality.

Centuries ago sugar was extremely expensive in Korea. Kings would use it as a medicine when they were sick.

You can't base every decision you make on well researched science though. Everyone develops their own heuristics to make decisions. I think naturalness is just one of those. And within a limited set of choices it is probably a pretty good heuristic.

I'm not really sure if it's that. If you look at the ingredient list of most of the products you buy, there's a ton of things in there which can cause allergies or other problems, if you consume too much of them.

It's ok to want something in its most natural form, but you have to make sure that the body is designed to deal with it. Like, don't eat raw potatoes or drink raw milk.

Naturalism is like Luddism and Conservativism. It is a preference for ideas that have been proven by survival over a long time, over new ideas that have less testing. Of course the principle can be misapplied.

Further: see ‘raw water’. As far as I can tell it’s mostly high income earners who fall for these fads, outside of those stuck in the wilderness without treated water.

It defies logic.

And if your want to see full crazy, check https://old.reddit.com/r/RawMeat/

> Vomit, diarrhea, coughing, sneezing, sweating, are all ways that the body expels toxins.

That's not even close to full crazy. In Romania there was a somewhat famous lifestly guru who advocates for this type of all natural lifestyle, in an all-vegan variant (Olivia Steer). She was asked by a follower who wanted to get pregnant but was no longer menstruating after following her advice whether she should change her diet or try some medication.

The response was along the lines of "No, no, no! The fact that you're no longer menstruating is proof that you are now rid of toxins! Menses are simply the body eliminating toxins. Just keep trying to conceive, and try some <herbal tea> if you're still having trouble".

To be clear, this is coming from a 30 year old woman with two children of her own...

It's taken us hundreds of thousands of years to achieve the benefits of civilization and to have people illogically throw all that out. It's mazing.

Technically, at least vomit, really is a self protection mechanism of the body.

But the only 'toxins' it can get rid of are those you recently consumed, not the vague and unspecified toxins that the diet people claim build up in your body and must be purged.

What is wrong with raw meat? Here you can buy raw minced pork for direct consumption (on bread rolls) almost everywhere. Why should ppl get sick from that?

Raw pork meat is not fine, as pork can have many worms, and other things, humans can catch.

Cooking kills these things.

People eat raw eggs in North America, but that's safe because of antibiotics in chicken feed. Salmonella can kill.

Beef is safer, which is why you only need char the outside to be safe.

In Germany eating raw minced pork is a specialty called "Mett". There are high safety standards and it is only allowed to be sold on the day of production, with care taken not to interrupt cooling, for example. It is generally considered very safe. Source: am German, eating it often.

Salmonella outbreaks in USA are fairly commonly reported by the CDC. I was able to quickly find three listings for salmonella in eggs.

July 26, 2018 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/braenderup-04-18/index.html

November 9, 2016 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/oranienburg-10-16/index.html

December 2, 2010 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/2010/shell-eggs-12-2-10.html

Regarding ground beef https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/ehsnet/plain_language/restauran...

Grilling various meats https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/bbq-iq.html

Both of these go far beyond just char the outside to be safe.

A few points here.

* people getting samonella from eggs, when those eggs are cooked, has no bearing on my statements about antibiotics in feed, and the safety of raw eggs vs cooked.

If you follow the first link, including going to the FDA, you will see the company responsible for the outbreak was sent a letter, and finally forced closed, as they were not folllowing safe egg handling guidelines.

Samonella can appear in the yolk, which is why antibiotics in chicken feed in North America.

However salmonella can be anywhere, such as in the nest where the hen lays, or 100 other contact surfaces, which is why you should always wash your eggs with soap and water before cracking.

Bets are, the company with the recall and forced close, was not doing so.

So again, to reiterate, cooking or not is not relevant to your link / data.

* You show ground beef in one link, and cooking guidance in another.

Ground beef invalidates "charring the outside", for one has ground up the meat, thus mixing all the bacteria on the outside of a cut of beef, throughout the meat. Always cook ground beef throughout.

If you hunt around, you will find safe guidelines for a cut of beef, which does not require cooking to 75C or what not, all through, to be safe.

One cavaet here...

Some cuts of beef are not as tender, so grocery stores will tenderize them with a mincing tool.

This is basically a tool which creates small slices in the cut, and again, is pushing the bacteria into the interior of te beef. For this reason, one must then cook to safe temps inside.

Lamb and beef do not have parasites we known of, in their flesh, as pork and chicken do. This is why chicken and pork require more stringent cooking instructions....

Every single pig in Germany is checked for trichinosis upon slaughter, and the meat meant for raw consumption can only be sold the same day, with an unbroken cooling chain. This makes Mett completely safe to eat, as a lot of Germans do very regularly (me too!).

But obviously only eating raw meat doesn't sound very appetizing or nutritionally healthy.

That’s all they eat. Just raw meat.

I agree. I had a look at the reddit, yes there is something wrong with them.

If you eat "natural" (I dislike the term) food you have a chance of cutting away additive sugar that the manufacturer add way too much of in most ready made products.

I.e. you get better food for an indirect reason.

Like if you make your own müsli you might not add sugar, which the companies add to increase sales, and have more of the expensive nuts, that they cut down in share to increase margins since noone notices the difference between 2.3% expensive nuts and 2.2% until there is almost no left ...

Yes, it often also boils down to giving it just a bit more of "care" (time, money) when producing and consuming.

This extends to other related topics as well. For example I had a colleague who went vegan and this meant she actually started to cook and care about the meals. This opened up a whole new dimension to life. I guess much depends also on where you happen the live and/or be brought up, and how strong the food culture is.

I would put GMO's in a completely different risk category to all the others, because of the tail risk involved and something to consider thoughtfully before introducing into an environment.

https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/pp2.pdf