Before the Fall of the Roman Republic

Re:Before the Fall of the Roman Republic by AmericanChopper on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @10:02PM (#30774012)

Your idea of a cohesive and loyal republic here seems to hinge entirely on the fact that the senate never surrendered, which isn’t nearly as remarkable as you’re making it out to be. Carthage didn’t surrender in the 3rd war either, but they were certainly not a highly cohesive entity at that stage.

During the second Punic war nearly half of the republic defected, and almost all Roman allies turned on them. Including a pro-Carthaginian uprising in Sardinia, and and outright defection of Syracuse to Carthage.

I guess you’re free to interpret things however you want, but “cohesive and loyal” is such an incredibly creative interpretation of the Roman republic during Hannibal’s invasion.

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Re:Before the Fall of the Roman Republic by CryptoPunk on Wednesday March 23, 2022 @12:21AM (#30774916)

The Senate didn't surrender, and still maintained the loyalty of the wider governing apparatus that collected resources for its campaigns. To be able to raise two dozen legions after the losses suffered in the first three years of the Second Punic War, suggests to me an extraordinary level of social cohesion and stability of government rule.

I believe you are incorrect about the defections as well. One source supporting this notion is Adrian Goldsworthy's "The Fall of Carthage: The Punic Wars 265–146 BC", which, by way of Wikipedia, claims:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Punic_War#Hannibal_cros...

However, the majority of Rome's allies remained loyal, including many in southern Italy.

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Re:Before the Fall of the Roman Republic by AmericanChopper on Wednesday March 23, 2022 @02:25AM (#30775574)

Immediately preceding the excerpt you chose to copy:

> Several of the city states in southern Italy allied themselves with Hannibal, or were captured when pro-Carthaginian factions betrayed their defences. These included the large city of Capua and the major port city of Tarentum (modern Taranto). Two of the major Samnite tribes also joined the Carthaginian cause. By 214 BC the bulk of southern Italy had turned against Rome.

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