Re:Mariupol's devastation: AP journalists document war's toll
by gruez on Friday March 18, 2022 @11:47PM
(#30730791)
>Yet as far as I'm aware, all appropriate processes and procedures were followed by our elected representatives in the course of levying sanctions against foreign nationals. Please point out where any process that was so due was circumvented. What exactly is the due process being violated?
You realize that sanctions =/= expropriation, and we were talking about expropriation?
>I'm sorry, but as a point of fact it's government force that is used to preserve and enforce property rights. How do you think private property remains private if not for the government's monopoly to arrest and imprison? Peace and goodwill toward men is not keeping the property of Russian oligarchs private -- it's the threat of imprisonment for violating them.
I'm not against "force" here, I'm against invoking authoritarian policies to fight authoritarianism. If there are some anti-due process terrorists running around, and the government decides respond by sending them to gulags/gitmo without trial, they shouldn't get to claim the moral high ground. At the very least, the irony shouldn't be lost on them.
>My advice to you is if you're really worried about the issue of civil asset forfeiture, this is not the right context to argue against it. Billionaire Russian oligarchs are not a sympathetic group to champion, and it's really in poor taste in the moment. Your effort is better spent fighting concrete injustices faced by ordinary Americans, rather than making dozens of posts on HN defending... Russian oligarchs engaged in a war of aggression.
Yeah, but the whole point of due process is to protect the unsympathetic. If they're sympathetic they can at least try to win in the court of public opinion. For the unsympathetic, due process is literally all they have.
You realize that sanctions =/= expropriation, and we were talking about expropriation?
>I'm sorry, but as a point of fact it's government force that is used to preserve and enforce property rights. How do you think private property remains private if not for the government's monopoly to arrest and imprison? Peace and goodwill toward men is not keeping the property of Russian oligarchs private -- it's the threat of imprisonment for violating them.
I'm not against "force" here, I'm against invoking authoritarian policies to fight authoritarianism. If there are some anti-due process terrorists running around, and the government decides respond by sending them to gulags/gitmo without trial, they shouldn't get to claim the moral high ground. At the very least, the irony shouldn't be lost on them.
>My advice to you is if you're really worried about the issue of civil asset forfeiture, this is not the right context to argue against it. Billionaire Russian oligarchs are not a sympathetic group to champion, and it's really in poor taste in the moment. Your effort is better spent fighting concrete injustices faced by ordinary Americans, rather than making dozens of posts on HN defending... Russian oligarchs engaged in a war of aggression.
Yeah, but the whole point of due process is to protect the unsympathetic. If they're sympathetic they can at least try to win in the court of public opinion. For the unsympathetic, due process is literally all they have.