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Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by roc on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @12:04PM (#3071529)
Yes, there absolutely are policies that encourage people to climb to a perch from which it is incredibly easy to fall: social pressure against out-of-wedlock births; ineffective sexual education; social stigma against and a lack of services providing female reproductive health in general, contraceptives, emergency contraceptives and abortion; the structure of our health system disincentivizing preventative medical care in general; bankruptcy 'reform'; predatory lending practices; social stigma against the trades; corporate abuse of the safety net to depress wages; college grants and their unregulated effect on tuition; the college loan system in general; regressive taxation; child tax credits; safety net rewards based on family size; the jarring transition between qualifying for social safety net programs and not qualifying; military rewards based on family size; subsidized sprawl and a lack of public transportation; zero-tolerance laws and policies; substandard school districts; etc.
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by anamax on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @08:25PM (#3073628)
> ineffective sexual education;

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've actually had significant interaction with young unwed mothers.

Almost every one of them got pregnant intentionally. Yes, many will tell you a story at first, and "I couldn't afford it" does let them save face, which is pretty much all they've got left. But, after a while, it comes out that they knew exactly what they were doing.

So, why did they want to get pregnant?

A minor reason is that being a parent gets you some immediate respect.

However, the big reason is one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

"A baby has to love me."

> regressive taxation

The US doesn't have a regressive tax system. In fact, much of the volatility in tax revenues, which is killing CA, comes from being too progressive. (FWIW, EU countries tend to have a much flatter tax system.)

"progressive" = fraction of income going to taxes increases with income. (Marginal rates are almost irrelevant, revenue is the only thing that matters.)

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by mikeash on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @09:30PM (#3073732)
Are you taking into account payroll taxes, sales tax, property tax, etc., when deciding that the US's tax system is not regressive?
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by Symmetry on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @11:35PM (#3074064)
Yes, the US tax system is more progressive even including all of that. However, it is true that we spend less on social programs that benefit poor people.
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by anamax on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @01:54AM (#3074420)
Yes, but ssi is different - it is basically forced savings with a twist, not taxes.

The twist is that the less you contribute, the higher your return.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by mikeash on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @11:36AM (#3076087)
In what way is it different from any other tax? A percentage of your earnings goes into it, you have no control over what happens after that point, sounds like any other tax.
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by anamax on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @01:26PM (#3076588)
> In what way is it different from any other tax?

What other taxes are paid back to you later, in rough approximation to the amount that you paid?

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by mikeash on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @03:39PM (#3077185)
That correlation is really weak, though, so I don't think it matters. In any case, why should it make a difference what happens to the money after you pay it? The nature of a tax is in how it gets collected, not what the government does with the money afterwards.
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by anamax on Thursday October 06, 2011 @02:33PM (#3081080)
> That correlation is really weak, though, so I don't think it matters.

The payback is entirely a function of the contribution stream (amounts and time).

> In any case, why should it make a difference what happens to the money after you pay it?

Because money collected for specific services rendered isn't much like money collected for general public services.

For example, many cities do garbage collection. While that money is collected by govt, it isn't much like property or sales tax.

Suppose that I'm looking to live in one of two cities. One has govt garbage collection and will charge me $100/month and the other has a private franchise providing garbage collection, again for $100/month. Would you really claim that the first city has higher taxes?

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by mikeash on Friday October 07, 2011 @11:39AM (#3084412)
> The payback is entirely a function of the contribution stream (amounts and time).

SS isn't just the basic retirement stuff. Other payments are available which vary based on disability, personal resources, and location and status of residence.

Even the basic retirement stuff depends greatly on how long you live. If you die just as you retire, your inheritors don't get any of your SS benefits.

> Suppose that I'm looking to live in one of two cities. One has govt garbage collection and will charge me $100/month and the other has a private franchise providing garbage collection, again for $100/month. Would you really claim that the first city has higher taxes?

Yes, as long as the $100/month is not optional. Gas taxes go to build highways that the driver uses, is that then not a tax? Tons of taxes are earmarked for specific purposes.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by nate_meurer on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @12:27PM (#3071646)
"climb to a perch from which it is incredibly easy to fall"

This is a succinct way to put it, and a good list. Can you say more about "social pressure against out-of-wedlock births"? You see this as another thing that encourages unsustainable lifestyles?

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by shoota on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @01:30PM (#3071919)
It encourages people to get married when perhaps they do not wish to do so, thus increasing divorce.
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by anamax on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @08:15PM (#3073598)
> It encourages people to get married when perhaps they do not wish to do so, thus increasing divorce.

There's divorce, and then there's divorce.

No kids, not much of a problem. Economically, they're better off together, but ....

Unwed parents are a disaster for both society and the kid(s). It's pretty much a guarantee of long-term poverty.

Having kids is almost always a choice, a choice that has huge consequences.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by anamax on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @02:01AM (#3074437)
It's great that you're providing a stable home, however that's the exception for unwed parents. Typically, the father wanders off and provides no support. None of the mother's options at that point are as good as a stable marriage/long-term relationship with the kid's father.

That's how the statistics work out. We can argue about why that happens, but it's absurd to suggest that it doesn't.

Parents' choices, and having kids is almost always a choice, have consequences.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by malbs on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @01:38AM (#3074384)
> Unwed parents are a disaster for both society and the kid(s). It's pretty much a guarantee of long-term poverty.

on what basis?

My partner and I had our 3 children out of wedlock. Who are you to say that unwed parents is a lock-in to food stamps and crime?

Next you'll be blaming unwed parents for the break down of the fabric of society.

You are way out of line.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by ars on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @06:05AM (#3074975)
If you are living exclusively together long term you are effectively married even if you don't have a paper saying so.

Some states call it common law marriage, but even if they don't you are still effectively married.

Marriage is not a piece of paper, marriage is a family structure.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by temphn on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @04:05PM (#3077289)
Relatively few people who have three children out of wedlock are "Smalltalk hackers". Just sayin'.