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A comment on Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a generation, maybe a century. Parent comment

Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by throwaway894345 on Thursday March 10, 2022 @11:49AM (#30629031)
When people say stuff like this, I'm inclined to make the distinction between the Russian state and the Russian people. Russia isn't a democracy, so its actions don't necessarily represent the will of the Russian people. And indeed, tens of thousands risk imprisonment by protesting the war, and this gives me hope. However, I've been really bummed lurking on r/AskARussian where many Russians perspectives read like, "I don't like Putin and I don't support this war but the sanctions are worse and the evil West forced Putin's hand and actually Putin is a hero and I love him and support the war". Even still, I don't want Russia to be cut off from the rest of the world, but I also want Putin's murderous conquest to be stopped.
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Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by chernevik on Thursday March 10, 2022 @11:54AM (#30629119)
No one is better positioned to end this than the Russian people. I don't see how they can be absolved of that responsibility.
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Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by throwaway894345 on Thursday March 10, 2022 @12:18PM (#30629447)
I sort of agree with you, but I don't think the judgment by westerners is justified considering how few westerners have contributed in any significant way toward the freedoms we enjoy and how many actively seek to undermine them (campaigns against free speech, due process, egalitarianism/"colorblindness", unfavorable election results, etc). While it's true that Russians are in the best position to fix their government, those who protest or otherwise resist demonstrate a braveness well in excess of anything most living westerners can claim, and I think that should be the posture with which we discuss Russians resisting their government.

EDIT: as a sibling commenter points out, many western countries are still directly financing the war via payments to Russian state fossil fuel companies. How many westerners would be willing to endure a year or more of high prices and economic downturn to resist the Russian invasion (yes, Americans favor boycotting Russian oil now, but (1) will they still after a year of high gas prices and (2) many other western countries are far more dependent on Russian oil than America)?

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Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by nofuture1 on Thursday March 10, 2022 @12:16PM (#30629417)
This is not entirely accurate. European countries pay billions of dollars for gas directly to the state. If they stopped immediately, the damage would be far greater than anything coming from the ordinary citizens.
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Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by chernevik on Thursday March 10, 2022 @01:06PM (#30630207)
The Russian people can stop that trade by just not showing up for work at Gazprom and Rosneft.

I agree, Europe should stop buying Russian gas. But the Russian people are closer to all of this.

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Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by Schiendelman on Thursday March 10, 2022 @11:55AM (#30629138)
The Russian people are the only ones that can stop this. It’s their fight, they created their government.
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Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by throwaway894345 on Thursday March 10, 2022 @12:23PM (#30629528)
As another commenter points out, the West could stop financing the war by payments to the Russian state in exchange for fossil fuels. But that would be pretty inconvenient for westerners.
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Re:Vladimir Putin is pushing Russia into past: Maybe a gener... by Schiendelman on Thursday March 10, 2022 @06:20PM (#30633973)
Yeah, that's entirely true. I wish I could get our country to stop buying oil. I live near an (electric, hydro powered) subway station so I don't have to own a car!
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