Sadly, it seems more russians are concerned about not getting a BILLY than standing up to Putin.

It's easy to point the finger when you're not the one facing the very real threat of 15 years in a Russian prison.

That's a fair point, but the state of their prisons and their political system is their responsibility, right?

I have a lot of compassion and empathy for the situation the Russian people are in right now, but they did make the system they are currently living in. If they want it to stop, they are going to have to stop it.

Putin is effectively unelected. Their election system is a multi-tiered hoax and just another method of deception.

The alcoholic "President" before Putin had actual tanks firing at congress when things didn't go his way.

Before that, communist supreme rulers who murdered those who opposed them. And their own party members to get the throne.

Before that, Tsars, imperialist supreme rules who murdered those who opposed them. And their own family members to get the throne.

I get it, dictatorship sucks, but the subjects of the dictator are the only people capable of dethroning him. The tanks aren't going to shoot themselves.

is it our responsibility that we protested the regime, forcing Putin to ramp up the repressions, to strengthen the police? If so, I guess we should've just stood still and patiently wait for Putin to die of old age instead of attempting to change anything.

This is going to sound rough, and I don't actually mean it personally. As i said, i have a lot of compassion that this isn't easy, and I'm not sure I'd have the fortitude to do it either, BUT. It is your responsibility that Putin is in a position where he CAN ramp up repressions. YOU are the power he wields, and it's you that have to resist him. Without a population to preside over, the president is nothing. Without an army to fire the tanks, the tanks are just hunks of metal.

Again, I don't want this to sound like a blame you. I understand that real life is more scary than some intellectual debate on HN, especially coming from a dude in western Europe, but philosophically I don't see who else holds the blame, because it's sure as hell not ONLY Putin.

How many countries' farmer populations overthrew militant dictators or monarchs at risk of death and dismemberment? All of Europe, pretty much? The entirety of the United States? "oh you can go to prison" is a pretty weak excuse.

One gets you a bookshelf and the other gets you a jail cell.

Do you really blame them?

A jail cell... or a bounty on your head https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061

Just like when the west stood up to the US Government and stopped the Iraq war? It's easy to point the finger when you're far from the reality.

It was meant half as a snarky comment and half as a sad testimonial of human nature. I mean: You hear the news that Ikea is closing, you likely link it to the world news, you think "got to buy some last minute furniture". I know it is human.

On the other hand: Lots of people protested the Iraq war. Lots of governments in the west did not participate in the coalition of the willing and protested (I know Germany under Chancellor Schröder did). Should we have done more against it? Probably. I still would justify it with it being a 9/11 aftermath thing, where the USA was on a rampage to get revenge and at the same time being absolutely unchallenged 10 years after the end of the cold war. They couldn't have been stopped by anyone.

That helpless perception you feel against the US Government is likely the same thing the average decent-minded Russian is feeling right now? At least it's unlikely you'd get 15 years protesting in the West.

Include France in there, hence the propagandas like "White flag", "French need saving", "Freedom fries", and the deep resentment of France in the US.

Try the Vietnam proxy war.

And any sensible and rational being with non-zero knowledge of Iraq and Saddam's transgressions against humanity should support the Iraq war which was all about toppling him. Since you're clearly not one of those, here's some homework to get you started: Halabja massacre, Kuwait invasion.

Word was Sadam killed 10,000 people during his reign, which is certainly abominable. US attack on Iraq killed over 10,000 people in several days

Here's some for yourself to contemplate: The IBC project has recorded a range of at least 185,194 – 208,167 total violent civilian deaths through June 2020 in their database. Was this a justifying cost to toppling him? Was the decision the American Government's to make?

Those events you mention are also a full 13 years before the war in Iraq started, why the delay, why end the gulf war? If my memory recalls, there was a lot of noise around WMDs at the time and questionable evidence for justification.

A lot of innocent civilians die in the process of toppling any eternal psychopathic dictator with firm grip on their country. The bloodbath of WW2 could have been completely avoided if Hitler was simply allowed to take a bunch of countries and kill some minorities. If that works for you then there is something awfully twisted about you. This, however, doesn't work for people under those regimes - the ones that actually get burned.

Also, chemical weapons are WMDs - something Saddam had and used. More homework for you: Operation Opera. Left alone, this guy would be a more psychotic ME DPRK. It's hard to imagine that DPRK itself doesn't come close to Iraq under Saddam.

Saddam's chemical weapons were manufactured and sold by USA firms. Again and again, we create more problems attempting to solve the problems we created in the first place. Most Americans don't realize this because their thoughts are provided by the war media.

Ukraine is not an exception.

Don't forget those babies getting thrown out of those incubators!

If spreading “fake news” about Putin could get you locked up for 15 years you might be equally disinclined to protest.

Then again their neighbors have to live with things worse than jail.

Do you think that's going to stop when probably already over crowded Russian jails fill up with dissidents?

Do you not think it's matter at all? Is history already completely laid out and unchangeable? Is the Russian people without any agency in their own lives and the life of their nation?

Damn, I wish I was a slightly quicker witted so I could have said something like:

No, I think you're delusional.

How much more agency do you think being in jail grants one?

No, I don't think Russians have much, if any, agency in the path their nation takes. For that matter, I don't think many Australians have much agency of Australia - all we get is representative democracy, and the selection of candidates seems to be almost entirely self-serving to the point of no longer even pretending to acting on behalf of those they represent. I understand that I'm able and capable to do more, I just not that interested in public life, I have an unsavoury criminal record, and the local media, owned by a media giant, already is quite fond of reminding everyone of things that happened nearly a decade a go any chance they get.

I think one of three things is going to happen in Ukraine: either Putin gets what he wants, and Europe are ok with that; he doesn't, and a protracted proxy & guerilla war carries on for possibly decades; or lastly he is deposed by what amounts to an inside job. In neither of these three eventualities does and one, or a group of, average Russian's actions have much, if any, impact.

My personal take is that within about three months Russia will have a new leader, although as often is the case in these situations, the new one will likely be worse than the old one.

Yeah. Between the masks and the war I think people will look back on these pictures 20 years from now and scratch their heads