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Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by ethbr0 on Thursday March 03, 2022 @10:00AM (#30541876)
For intro computer science students, pointers-as-explicit-references are far easier to comprehend than Java's esoterica.

Said as someone who took intro computer science at 2 universities across 3 courses (C/C++, Python, Java), due engineering to art to computer science major switching.

I understand why Java did what they did, from a performance standpoint, but that's a poor highest value to hold for education use.

And in retrospect, was batshit user-hostile. F.ex. with a few more keywords and rules, C# smoothed off so many rough edges.

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by kaba0 on Thursday March 03, 2022 @10:36AM (#30542339)
> pointers-as-explicit-references are far easier to comprehend than Java's esoterica.

What is esoteric about Java’s references? They are basically equivalent to C pointers without arithmetics and marketed as references. It is pretty much the same for most high level languages.

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by ethbr0 on Thursday March 03, 2022 @03:19PM (#30546356)
The object/primitive distinction, which seems like something an intro CS student really shouldn't be wasting their time learning.

IMHO, the C-style */& was far clearer when I was first learning to program. Especially since you could just echo out the (virtual) memory address.

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by kaba0 on Thursday March 03, 2022 @03:28PM (#30546496)
The object/primitive distinction is pretty much the very short list of primitives (even written with lower case letters) vs every other type.

> IMHO, the C-style */& was far clearer when I was first learning to program

Tell that to the million segfaults that students learning C experience (or worse, they don’t even get it!!)

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by ethbr0 on Thursday March 03, 2022 @05:34PM (#30547969)
Yes, int vs Integer. It does make sense that those would function differently. /s ;)

And C definitely has some inscrutable errors, but to me once I understood them, they always made sense in computer terms. Whereas Java errors and oddities only make sense in Java terms.

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by kergonath on Thursday March 03, 2022 @12:42PM (#30544101)
> For intro computer science students, pointers-as-explicit-references are far easier to comprehend than Java's esoterica.

C pointers are even worse as an introduction.