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Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @03:14PM (#30532416)
> We need to find a variant of (a) that allows Putin to save face

Recognize the annexation of Crimea and promise immediate sanctions rollbacks the moment the last Russian troop leaves Ukraine (other than Donbas and Luhansk, that ship has sailed).

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by freeopinion on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @05:59PM (#30534601)
So you mean to provide Russia with a more stable platform from which to invade again in say, 5 years?

You don't change any of the context that led Russia to invade in the first place. You leave intact an aggressor who has repeatedly and consistently expanded. You gave them Crimea and hoped that would appease them. You tolerated their aggressions in eastern Ukraine. Now you will just give them Donbas and Luhansk and hope once again to appease them?

That strategy might be better accepted if the world hadn't seen 1938-1939.

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by ethbr0 on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @06:12PM (#30534758)
Give them Crimea in exchange for an agreement that Ukraine be allowed to apply to join NATO.
Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by drran on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @10:06PM (#30536649)
Give them Sudeten in exchange for promise that they will not attack Poland.

This tactic worked well for 8 years in the case of Ukraine and was heavily (really heavily) promoted by François Hollande and Angela Merkel.

IMHO, it's good to stick to a tactic with proven track record. The main idea is to feed the monster with virgins. Give them Crimea, then Donbas, then Belarus, then South Ukraine, then Eastern Ukraine, then Central Ukraine, then Western Ukraine, then Georgia, then Finland, etc., etc., etc. With a few years between each scarification, this can keep the monster satiated for a long time, so it will be a problem of your children, while you keep a comfortable style of life. For bang per $, this is the cheapest and safest option for most Europeans and Americans.

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by ethbr0 on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @10:29PM (#30536806)
If the remainder of Ukraine is covered by NATO after the appeasement, that's the end of Russian aggression.

There is no "and then" with NATO member sovereign territory.

Ukraine is only being invaded by Russia because it isn't a NATO member.

Russia was willing to invade Ukraine, for some land. Russia isn't willing to invade 28 European countries + US + Canada, for some land.

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by pastacacioepepe on Thursday March 03, 2022 @06:18AM (#30539583)
> Russia was willing to invade Ukraine, for some land

Where did you even get this idea? Russia is the largest country in the entire world, encompassing 1/8th of the inhabitable land on Earth ALONE. Why would they get in a fight with the entire world to get a few more hundred squared kilometers of dirt? That doesn't make the remotest sense.

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by ethbr0 on Thursday March 03, 2022 @07:20AM (#30539983)
If you don't believe this is about strategic territory, then what do you think it's about?
Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by pastacacioepepe on Thursday March 03, 2022 @06:11AM (#30539549)
Nice job of comparing an entire population with more history and culture than you can ever dream of, to a "monster" that feeds itself with virgins. Flagged. This is an open display of racial hate fed by propaganda.
Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by kyboren on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @03:38PM (#30532756)
I also think this is the most viable offramp. Everyone gets to plausibly claim victory, if not total victory.

Russia keeps the money pit dear to the hearts of many Russians and doesn't become a Chinese vassal state. Ukraine ends the bloodshed and saves their sovereignty for the cost of what they have already lost.

There will be sticking points, for sure, notably around Putin himself, reparations, and yes, the status of DPR and LPR, but I hold out hope that they don't forestall a potential deal.

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by denton-scratch on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @06:01PM (#30534634)
Sorry, but I don't think there's an offramp.

I can't see the Russian leadership backing down from their stated goals. That means they have to subdue Ukraine, and probably Finland, Estonia and Poland too. If they don't win in at least Ukraine, then they have lost badly, and their economy is destroyed.

I don't think they'll settle now for a piece of Crimea or a piece of Donbas. The entire story is that the whole of Ukraine is a bogus state.

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by rootusrootus on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @06:37PM (#30535041)
> Finland, Estonia and Poland

That would be a hell of an escalation. Emphasis on hell. Estonia and Poland are NATO members, which means WW3. And attacking Finland, though not yet a NATO member, would probably invite the largest response from Europe in memory. World war indeed.

Re:What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, exper... by denton-scratch on Thursday March 03, 2022 @08:12AM (#30540487)
> which means WW3.

Customarily, it's been called a "World War" when both sides have participants from multiple nations. As far as I'm aware, Russia's only ally would be Belarus, which looks to me like a Russian province in all but name.

"WWIII" is a term that also refers to Global Thermonuclear War; if that's what you meant, then I apologise for being pedantic.

[Edit] No attack on Poland or the Baltic states is possible without first subduing Ukraine; so I don't think that's at all imminent. But I wouldn't be surprised if Russia pops a tactical nuke or two in Ukraine, then all bets will be off.