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Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by jcranmer on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @01:56PM (#30531265)
I will freely admit that Java Swing remains the only GUI toolkit I've used that I actually felt comfortable using to write a GUI, rather than something that feels like having to pull out teeth to get things working in a somewhat coherent manner.
Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by QuercusMax on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @04:50PM (#30533697)
Absolutely agree, provided you use a layout manager that isn't brain damaged.

Anyone remember this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuLaxbFKAcc - Totally Gridbag

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by MaxBarraclough on Thursday March 03, 2022 @08:22AM (#30540612)
I don't do a lot of GUI programming, but I always found the Swing layouting to be very frustrating and counterintuitive.

As others have said, JavaFX is really pretty good. People who use JavaFX generally seem to be satisfied, it's not often I see a substantive criticism of it, but unfortunately it seems to be widely regarded as too little too late and doesn't get given a chance. The Ada of the GUI toolkit world.

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by bigger_cheese on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @05:53PM (#30534514)
For a while I thought GTK was great hope for a good toolkit. I remember about this time period in this article (early 2000's) messing around with Perl/GTK to write simple desktop apps.

Unfortunately had issues with new version breaking backwards compatibility etc. which killed it.

QT also had similar hype but never took off.

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by bitwize on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @02:13PM (#30531498)
You haven't tried AppKit, WinForms, or WPF.
Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by datavirtue on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @02:34PM (#30531799)
Winforms is dead, as in not cross platform and WPF...the same. WPF is declarative XML as is Xamarin Forms (both slightly different XML oddly). Not fun.
Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by jeroenhd on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @07:53PM (#30535677)
Microsoft's refusal to port WinForms is truly the most disappointing part of its cross-platform efforts, in my opinion. They have Mono, they can get it working, they just choose not to.

I wouldn't build a production application in WinForms, WPF and friends are much better for that. But, for quick&dirty or even moderately complex tools for experts, VS + WinForms simply has no equal. Some Python-based designers come close, but they definitely suffer when it comes to distribution.

With modern dotnet tech, Microsoft could allow us to build a (rather sizable) single, statically linked binary for any architecture, with the impressive performance of the dotnet JIT and native controls.

After working on Android designs, I've got to say, XML is fine for UI design. You need previews and visual inspectors to get an accurate idea of what you're doing, but describing what control lives where and what properties it has is a perfectly sensible use case for XML.

Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by kaba0 on Thursday March 03, 2022 @03:52AM (#30538725)
It wouldn’t make much sense to port Winforms any more, as it is CPU-renderer only. It would be disappointingly slow for anything more complex than, well, forms.
Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by mike_hearn on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @03:54PM (#30532988)
XML is actually pretty good at declaring UI. It's the sort of thing the language was designed for - a UI is a tree of attributed nodes, and that's also what XML gives you.
Re:The decline and fall of Java on the desktop by thrower123 on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @07:56PM (#30535701)
Winforms is undead.

We'll be writing WinForms applications in the 22nd century.