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Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by belter on Saturday February 26, 2022 @02:25PM (#30480886)
Yes but note also from the Report ( pag 20/21 )

"...Irrespective of this, the Atlantic Alliance makes it clear that the organisation’s security guarantees apply to members only. Full access to collective defense planning, decision-making and military structures can only be reached via full membership.

This leads to the main paradox of the NATO partnership, namely that in the worst case it can be seen in the eyes of external actors to strengthen an ever-closer association with NATO without, however, supplying the deterrence provided by Article 5..."

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:24PM (#30481543)
The EU membership includes it's own defense pact.

EU membership but NATO non-membership gives security to Finland, without hosting US military weapons aimed at Russia. In this way, it gives defensive security without making it a strategic threat to Russia.

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by Ciantic on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:43PM (#30481780)
It does, and Finnish President has asked many times a clarification what it actually means, see [1]. It's his favorite hobby horse, he keeps asking about it, but not getting any clarification from other member states.

Problem is apparently with it is wording, it makes requirement to help any ways available. But apparently it can be interpreted like "give humanitarian aid" or even "send troops to help", depending on reader. It's not clear it's defensive enough.

[1]: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/niinisto-vaati-suoraa-ke...

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by s1artibartfast on Sunday February 27, 2022 @01:59AM (#30486066)
It must be maddening, shouting "There are things that need to be clarified", and just receiving blank disinterested stares like a dark comedy..
Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by logifail on Saturday February 26, 2022 @02:53PM (#30481181)
> the organisation’s security guarantees

Q1: Do existing NATO members consult their citizens (referendum or political party making pledge before national election or similar) before a new member state is admitted?

Q2: If not, why not?

bonus Q: Imagine Taiwan were to apply to join NATO...

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by sjs382 on Saturday February 26, 2022 @09:24PM (#30484703)
Re: Taiwan, via Wikipedia:

"Article 6 states that the treaty covers only member states' territories in Europe and North America, Turkey and islands in the North Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer, plus French Algeria. It was the opinion in August 1965 of the US State Department, the US Defense Department and the legal division of NATO that an attack on the U.S. state of Hawaii would not trigger the treaty, but an attack on the other 49 would.[47] The Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla on the North African shore are thus not under NATO protection in spite of Moroccan claims to them. Legal experts have interpreted that other articles could cover the Spanish North African cities but this take has not been tested in practice."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by belter on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:27PM (#30481578)
Another difficulty for Sweden and Finland is that all need to agree.

"NATO Enlargement & Open Door"

"...NATO’s “open door policy” is based on Article 10 of the Alliance’s founding document, the North Atlantic Treaty (1949). The Treaty states that NATO membership is open to any “European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area”. It states that any decision on enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”. .."

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_...

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:25PM (#30481556)
>bonus Q: Imagine Taiwan were to apply to join NATO...

I imagine you would see a very similar response from China, probably a more swift and harsh than that of Russia.

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by AniseAbyss on Saturday February 26, 2022 @04:42PM (#30482262)
Most countries don't recognize Taiwan's independence. I'm always amazed people don't know that.

Despite CCP's yelling that they want to invade the world has agreed to an awkward but stable status quo.

Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 26, 2022 @07:45PM (#30484001)
Perhaps we could invite them to be a 51st US state instead. Unfortunately, I imagine this would upset the awkward but stable status quo, not unlike the upset from Ukraine joining NATO.
Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by ghaff on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:03PM (#30481294)
Because all(?) of the NATO members are representative democracies of some form or other. While obviously certain actions can be a domestic political issue (so in that sense citizens are "consulted"), there's no direct citizen vote on things like alliances, treaties, etc. (or many other actions a national government takes).
Re:The Effects of Finland's Possible NATO Membership (2016) ... by logifail on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:15PM (#30481446)
> there's no direct citizen vote on things like alliances, treaties, etc

One could imagine that if your country's citizens will be called upon to go to war to fight to defend a distant "country X", just because your country and "country X" happen to be in an alliance, that citizens informed consent would be desirable and required before signing such a treaty.

Despite what your politicians might say, joining an military alliance has a cost, it's not a freebie.