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Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by mohanmcgeek on Friday February 25, 2022 @12:25PM (#30469676)
> Russian bank could just increase that number to whatever they like.

Money is an IOU from the bank. So that's what all banks do. But they'll need assets on the right side of their balance sheet.

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by snovv_crash on Friday February 25, 2022 @01:03PM (#30470151)
Bit what if they didn't, and just changed some numbers in their database?
Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by waterheater on Friday February 25, 2022 @02:25PM (#30471115)
Then you have fraud, likely leading to an economic crisis.

Consider the 2007-2008 financial crisis. Abstractly, investors believed that homes had significant value until, one day, society realized the value didn't exist in reality but only "on paper." We know that investment bankers were hiding the problem until the proverbial lid blew.

You might consider that our current financial paradigm has never been tried before in human history. For thousands of years, currency was based upon various measures of value which attempted to be as objective as possible. Semi-rare materials (e.g. gold and silver) and difficult-to-replicate coinage were some examples. The US dollar was decoupled from the gold standard under the Nixon administration. The end result is, one dollar now holds value relative to the amount of dollars in existence. To increase the relative amount of precious metals into the world is relatively difficult (actual physical labor is required), but to increase the total amount of dollars in existence is as simple as updating a database entry.

If financial controls work exceedingly well, the current economic system is viable. We know, however, that they don't.

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by lisper on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:00PM (#30471666)
> We know, however, that they don't.

We know no such thing. The only objective fact is that there have been fewer financial crises since the dollar went off the gold standard than before.

Financial controls don't work perfectly, but having money tied to a commodity is fraught with its own difficulties. It's actually quite handy to have fine-grained control over the money supply that is not coupled to external physical circumstances because then at least we have the option of controlling it to produce better outcomes even if we don't always succeed.

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by landemva on Saturday February 26, 2022 @12:07AM (#30475329)
' we have the option of controlling it to produce better outcomes '

Following that logic, every country can simply print fiat money until everyone is rich.

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by lisper on Saturday February 26, 2022 @12:43PM (#30479790)
It's true that every country can print as much fiat money as they want. It is obviously not true that this will make everyone rich because money is not wealth. Money is just an accounting system. It is useful to have a money supply that tracks actual wealth because it is useful to have stable prices. It makes planning easier. Fiat money is useful because it allows inflation/defaltion to be controlled by policy rather than the whims of fate. But it's still up to us to choose the right policy.
Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by nradov on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:36PM (#30472058)
One dollar now holds value relative to your tax bill. If you're subject to US taxes then you have to hold dollars. The IRS doesn't accept precious metals, and if you fail to pay in dollars then they'll seize your other assets. (Technically the IRS might accept official US minted gold coins at face value but that's not really something that happens in practice.)
Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by mohanmcgeek on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:19PM (#30471894)
> The end result is, one dollar now holds value relative to the amount of dollars in existence.

This idea of commodity money is far detached from how it actually works. Thread has several good links if you want to learn how it actually works.

What is the reason behind so many people believing this? Do they teach it like this at school? (This resurfaces everytime money is discussed here)

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by majormajor on Friday February 25, 2022 @02:32PM (#30471254)
Other comments are making comparisons to asset bubbles or governmental money-printing, which is rather different than immediate bald-faced fraud on the part of a single actor.

Do you really think it's that easy? That *nobody else involved in the system ever was like "wait, what if someone tries to defraud us?"? That there aren't various levels of checks and methods to prevent such easy, easy things?

That, say, the FDIC in the US is just telling banks "sure, we'll insure your bank accounts, don't bother sending us verification, we trust you!"

Whenever you hear someone complain about onerous reporting requirements or other such business regulations, remember that those things get put in place to catch shit like this.

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by landemva on Saturday February 26, 2022 @12:19AM (#30475375)
Actually the regulators encouraged backdated deposits to allow IndyMac to appear solvent.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=6514493 "The impact of Western Director Dochow's approval to record the capital infusion in the quarter ending March 31, was that IndyMac was able to maintain its 'well-capitalized' status," ...

https://www.cnbc.com/2011/11/23/financial-fingerpointing-tur... ' Even if regulators are involved in wrongdoing, they have some immunity. Internal disciplinary measures are rarely taken against regulators who perform badly in their jobs, say government officials. '

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by dannyw on Friday February 25, 2022 @11:30PM (#30475219)
Yeah, right.

Ask anyone in accounting in a large enough corporation how many millions of dollars go unaccounted each quarter.

Ask the Inspector General of the Defense Department how many trillions of dollars are fudged (answer: $2.6 trillion as of 2016).

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by Aunche on Friday February 25, 2022 @01:45PM (#30470632)
If anyone suspects that, then everyone will try to withdraw their money from their account and they'd soon get exposed of fraud.
Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by orangepurple on Friday February 25, 2022 @02:24PM (#30471103)
Well, it hasn't happened yet and reality is staring at you in the face

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by tintor on Friday February 25, 2022 @01:20PM (#30470358)
Then you have inflation, and rise of prices.
Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by mohanmcgeek on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:25PM (#30471950)
Then the left side and the right side of their balance sheet will not add up to the same value
Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by andrepd on Friday February 25, 2022 @01:02PM (#30470127)
> But they'll need assets on the right side of their balance sheet.

[citation needed]

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by vishnugupta on Friday February 25, 2022 @02:54PM (#30471590)
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m...

"Whenever a bank makes a loan, it simultaneously creates a matching deposit in the borrower’s bank account, thereby creating new money."

So on the asset is a loan made by the bank.

Re:A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters by nradov on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:40PM (#30472112)
What kind of citation are you looking for? That's not a controversial issue, it's just the basic reality of how fractional reserve banking has always worked. I'm sure that was covered in your Econ 101 class so open up your old textbook.