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Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by paganel on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:58AM (#30465121)
On our (West's) side there were definitely lots os mistakes that were made during the last few years.

The most important one is the promise given to Ukraine that it will enter NATO and the EU if only given enough time for implementation details, totally ignoring the needs and apprehensions of Russia next door. Which might be ok in an ideal world, but fact of the matter is that international relations are as far from an "ideal world" as one can imagine, they're one of the last, true bastions of open hobbes-ianism when it comes to politics and human relations. We needed more realists, more people willing to see things as they really were, and less idealists, less people saying things like "how can Putin not accept the sovereignty of other countries? Doesn't he know that breaks international law?"

Also, one must have the feeling that Ukraine has been a little let down by the EU and NATO in all this, especially by the EU. I can understand at this point why NATO won't get involved more than it has (I think they now see the possibility of Putin starting WW3 on the flimsiest of pretences), but imo the EU could have done so much more, at least when it comes to direct economic assistance given to Ukraine and to real economic sanctions imposed on Russia. Just two days ago the Belgians and Italians were still bickering [1] over not imposing sanctions on Russian oligarchs related to the diamond market (very strong in Belgium) and the luxury market (very strong in Italy). When you put in the balance the selling of luxury bags to some Russian oligarchs' wives vs the fate of a nation to whom you had promised the world then something is wrong, really wrong (hopefully, once the war really started a day after that those petty negotiations were put on hold)

Source: me, living in a NATO and EU member country bordering Ukraine

[1] https://twitter.com/MatinaStevis/status/1496758467943866374

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by JumpCrisscross on Saturday February 26, 2022 @09:22AM (#30477760)
> the promise given to Ukraine that it will enter NATO and the EU

Your comment history approaches deliberate misinformation. This is an example. NATO admission was never promised. The consultation process was all but abandoned over a decade ago, before Putin rolled into Crimea.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 26, 2022 @11:10AM (#30478742)
This was revised by NATO in 2021 and more substantial commitments were made.

NATO reaffirmed that “Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP)", which is the most traction on the topic since 2008.

In 2016, Ukraine was granted the Comprehensive Assistance Package (CAP), comprising the advisory mission at the NATO Representation to Ukraine as well as 16 capacity-building programmes and Trust Funds. And in 2018, Ukraine was officially given an aspiring member status.

I found this article to be informative:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2021/06/15/the-2021-brussels-nat...

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by JumpCrisscross on Sunday February 27, 2022 @12:42PM (#30490582)
That article continues the pattern of your earlier comment, which falsely claimed NATO membership was promised to Ukraine. I also have zero ability to confirm the source, whose domain was created about a month after Crimea was illegally annexed by Putin.
Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by s1artibartfast on Sunday February 27, 2022 @03:48PM (#30492355)
You see Russian shills everywhere. The full source was the top result from google searching the quote.

You can read it yourself from the 2021 NATO statement, unless you think the NATO website is another shill. See section 69.

It corroborates my earlier statements.

>https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_185000.htm