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Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by jacquesm on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:21AM (#30464870)
The NAZI bit was a lie by Putin, the fact that their president is a Jew should dispel any doubt about that, so it does contradict Putin.

> while Putin has in mind more broad definition "anti-ethnos, for any ethnos"

But: the Ukrainian government never was against any ethnic group. That is what Putin would like you to believe, but it simply isn't true. Just like the Latvian government isn't against the ethnic Russians living in Latvia (a very large fraction of the people in Latvia have Russian roots).

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by Jerry2 on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:38AM (#30464977)
How is AZOV battalion not a neo-Nazi outfit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

There are photos of them doing the Nazi salute [1] and videos of them flying the Nazi flag on the front lines. Even human rights groups have complained about the arms sales to neo-Nazis [2].

https://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/2014/11/nazis-in-azov-batt...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-isr...

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by jacquesm on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:42AM (#30465012)
And you seriously contend that they are the ones running Ukraine?

Both Russia, Ukraine and Serbia have a Neo Nazi problem. But that does not justify Russia invading Ukraine.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by Freak_NL on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:06AM (#30465171)
It's such a pointless metric too; there are neo-Nazis in just about every country. I wouldn't even be surprised if Djibouti had a couple of weirdos regularly dressing up in SS-uniforms in the weekend.
Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by Jerry2 on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:52AM (#30465083)
>Both Russia, Ukraine and Serbia have a Neo Nazi problem

So does the US. But in the US, neo-Nazis are not in our government, the Congress and in top military positions. They are extremely powerful in the Ukraine and are dictating policy.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by dragonwriter on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:00AM (#30465137)
> They are extremely powerful in the Ukraine and are dictating policy.

No, they aren't, that's pure propaganda from Russia, which, ironically, uses international neonazis as a means of undermining other states around the world.

https://www.justsecurity.org/68420/confronting-russias-role-...

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by rbanffy on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:47AM (#30465834)
Ironically, in the case of Ukraine, it's the US who turns a blind eye to the neonazis. As they kind of do in Brazil, having helped Bolsonaro to reach the presidency, BTW.
Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by dragonwriter on Friday February 25, 2022 @10:05AM (#30467991)
> Ironically, in the case of Ukraine, it's the US who turns a blind eye to the neonazis.

No, it doesn't. There simply aren't any in positions of significant policy influence. (The US has—although that has changed a little bit since Jan. 6, 2021 for...reasons—historically largely turned a blind eye to the much more extensive influence of neonazis in the US, where they have, among other things, deep and extensive peentration of the internal and external security services, which is one reason the US has been especially vulnerable to their use as international agents of influence by Russia under Putin.)

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by rbanffy on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:11PM (#30472424)
> There simply aren't any in positions of significant policy influence.

They wouldn't, because it wouldn't solve any problem for them. The current Ukraine government is friendly towards the US and the neonazi militias were doing the job of suppressing insurgents, largely with support from said government. The US had more than a little influence in the replacement of the previous, Russia-friendly government.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by sofixa on Friday February 25, 2022 @06:15AM (#30466025)
> But in the US, neo-Nazis are not in our government, the Congress and in top military positions

Are you sure about that?

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by smcl on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:16AM (#30465242)
There are also neo-nazis in Russia, USA, Germany, Sweden and basically every country with a white majority population. This doesn't mean they're nazi countries, and it certainly doesn't mean they need to be invaded and liberated.
Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by modo_mario on Friday February 25, 2022 @07:24AM (#30466531)
Here's the guy that took leadership of Donetsk when it all started. You may notice his windmill of peace insignia:

https://khpg.org/files/img/1394442849.jpg

Maybe if Putin would stop funding neonazi groups across Europe he'd have any credence on the matter.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by foxfluff on Friday February 25, 2022 @03:58AM (#30465117)
You can find small far-right groups in virtually every country, including the US and many European countries. Talk about them is mere distraction, they are not running the country.

And there's little doubt that if a country goes through a violent clash against corrupt government (see euromaidan), such groups would take the opportunity to gain standing. You can draw parallels to capitol hill events, or imagine what groups like Soldiers of Odin (the nordics) would have done had there been protests with bullets.

And when your country is invaded by a foreign nation, your army generals are not going to ask about the political opinions of those who are willing to fight for their country. A small group of nazis defending Ukraine from Russian invasion? So what. There will be nationalists standing in any country's army if they get invaded.

Talk about nazism is a mere distraction and something Putin's trolls would do. Please don't.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by rbanffy on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:45AM (#30465825)
> Talk about nazism is a mere distraction and something Putin's trolls would do. Please don't.

It's a bit more complicated than that. Ukraine has neonazi militias that enjoy some level of government support and that have been involved in violent incidents in the past. This, of course, does not justify an invasion by a foreign power. Ukraine currently ranks very low as a functional democracy (we can give them some slack on that, since they've been essentially invaded since 2014). I'm still not sure what's the upside of this for Russia, or for Putin. As the article points out, invasions take months, if not years, of planning. While the decision to stand down can be made at any point, the decision to invade has to wait for all the pieces to be in place. Whatever the end-goal is, it's not Ukraine.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by foxfluff on Friday February 25, 2022 @06:19AM (#30466069)
> Ukraine has neonazi militias that enjoy some level of government support and that have been involved in violent incidents in the past.

I'm trying to say that this would likely happen in any country where political unrest and corruption leads to a violent change of regime. That militia formed during Euromaidan, and they are useful to the government in so far as they are against occupation by Russia. Just as Nazi Germany was useful to my country (Finland) in the second world war.

Nazi bad, but a small group with nationalistic ideals fighting for the nation doesn't mean the nation is nazi, and it would be irrational to reject the aid of such a group in the fight against occupation. It'd be good for virtue signalling at most but you don't fight a country the size of Russia or China by thoughts and prayer and virtue signalling. And I'm pretty sure Putin would have some excuse for attacking Ukraine with or without a minuscle amount of neo-nazis in the soup.

If Ireland is invaded by a giant neighbor, the government isn't going to ask their infantry whether they're nationalists before letting them fight for your country.

If Putin thinks nazis are the reason to invade a country, he ought to invade Finland too. I'd still hope our nationalist party takes up arms and goes to the front lines to defend Finland. And they should have the Government's full support in doing so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Ideology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party#Controversies

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by rbanffy on Friday February 25, 2022 @07:15AM (#30466444)
> I'd still hope our nationalist party takes up arms and goes to the front lines to defend Finland. And they should have the Government's full support in doing so.

As usual, the problem is how you deal with them later, after they got access to weapons and military training and, perhaps more dangerous, some political legitimacy as war heroes.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by drran on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:54AM (#30465879)
Let me quote Wikipedia about Azov regiment:

> On 11 August, Azov battalion, backed by Ukrainian paratroopers, captured Marinka from pro-Russian rebels and entered the suburbs of Donetsk clashing with Donetsk People's Republic fighters.

So, I assume, the Ukraininan Nazi are killing Donetsk People's Republic fighters? This is THE crime you are talking about?

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by ComradePhil on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:11AM (#30465205)
Say what you will about Putin but he's not wrong about that. Ukrainian government is one of the the most hostile governments towards ethnic minorities. You can argue that other countries are racist, but the racism is mostly at ground level. In Ukraine, it is from the policy level itself.
Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by jacquesm on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:14AM (#30465223)
> In Ukraine, it is from the policy level itself.

Utter bullshit.

If there is any country that is instrumental in financing hate groups then it is Russia, they have their fingers in every pie that they can find.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by ComradePhil on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:21AM (#30465267)
Did they not ban Russian language media saying "it belongs to Russian(-speaking) oligarchs"? As if their own media doesn't belong to Ukrainian-speaking oligarchs.

What percentage of budget goes into Russian-majority areas? Let's say even before the whole NATO thing started in 2008.

Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by jacquesm on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:27AM (#30465308)
Are you seeing this as a reason to justify Russian invasion into Ukraine?
Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by drran on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:56AM (#30465893)
Russian majority areas are in Russia, not in Ukraine. You are off by a whole country. :-)
Re:Understanding the War in Ukraine by pqwEfkvjs on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:59AM (#30465915)
Oh my god, get a grip man.