News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Stack Overflow Launches by michael_dorfman on Monday September 15, 2008 @09:03AM (#304571)
I was amused by the contrast between (on the one hand) Joel's long list of instructions and "how-to" hints in his blog post, and (on the other hand) the seeming absence of instructions/guidance on the site itself. (The guidance is actually there if you dig around far enough, but it sure doesn't look that way to a casual user.)

I also find it interesting that you apparently need 15 reputation points before you can upvote, which means you have to successfully answer one or more questions. In practice, this means that a drive-by/first-time user can't use their expertise to choose the best answer among the existing set, but have to chime in with a (most likely redundant) answer first, which seems counter-productive.

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by kylec on Monday September 15, 2008 @10:02AM (#304627)
The threshold is to prevent bots from upvoting stuff. It requires a minimal amount of participation that can easily be achieved by a simple answer or question.
Re:Stack Overflow Launches by wensing on Monday September 15, 2008 @10:29AM (#304672)
This is a bit of a meta comment, but I find this sort of response to feedback to be counterproductive. Don't defend/justify the way the system works or why it works the way it does. Read between the lines and find a way to satisfy the customer.
Re:Stack Overflow Launches by mechanical_fish on Monday September 15, 2008 @10:53AM (#304694)
Don't defend/justify the way the system works or why it works the way it does. Read between the lines and find a way to satisfy the customer.

That might be good advice if the customer contacts you one-on-one. But when the customer posts their complaint to a message board that's read by thousands of third parties, it's helpful to put up an explanation of why the system was designed the way it was. Otherwise I, who have never used the service and am just skimming this thread, might come away with the wrong impression.

It's important to avoid getting into a flamewar with your customers, but pointing out the rationale behind your design decisions isn't necessarily offensive. Yes, it's not what the complainer really wants to see, but it is what I, the silent reader of the thread, want to see. And people like me outnumber the original complainer N to 1.

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by wensing on Monday September 15, 2008 @11:02AM (#304703)
You might outnumber them, but you may be less vital. A person that takes the time to write is a potential evangelist.

And you'd better be pretty confident about 'N'. Threads like this and readers like yourself may provide a short term boost or bust, but communicative visitors can broadcast the message off-line for months to come.

I think you'd agree that we should aim higher (much, much higher), than just avoiding getting into a flame war.

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by kylec on Monday September 15, 2008 @12:34PM (#304800)
I am in no way affiliated with Stack Overflow - I've just been a user for the past few weeks so please don't lecture me about satisfying the "customer". During my time on the site I've seen the creators attempt to walk the delicate line between ease of access and attempting to curb the abuse that comes hand-in-hand with that. Personally, I think that they've made an incredibly open system that anyone can contribute to if they want.

You may have been confused about the scoring system using to calculate reputation. It's a little more fine-grained than a traditional up/down karma system. Since voting up gives you +10 rep, getting 15 rep is as easy as getting two people to vote up your submission.

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by jauco on Monday September 15, 2008 @11:20AM (#304722)
What if there isn't one?

1) The site builder added a certain effort treshhold to block out spammers.

2) The complaining user doesn't want to invest the effort to cross the treshold.

These statements are mutually exclusive. The only way to resolve this problem is to remove the need for a treshold. (i.e. remove spam from the internet)

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by wensing on Monday September 15, 2008 @11:27AM (#304727)
Sure. I was critiquing the customer service attitude/response, not the technical details.

Even if something isn't feasible, that doesn't make the customer wrong.

Complaining customers are opportunities to step away from the whiteboard and listen.

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by jauco on Monday September 15, 2008 @11:38AM (#304744)
The question I meant to ask was: "what would you do if there isn't a solution to the customers problem?" + explanation why this particular question doesn't have a solution.
Re:Stack Overflow Launches by wensing on Monday September 15, 2008 @11:47AM (#304757)
Example for www.mypretendcoffeewebsite.com

Customer: "I would like it better if every time I opened up your web page a slice of buttered toast came out of my CD drive."

Response: "[APPRECIATION: Thanks for your feedback]. [EMPATHY: We understand your desire for a tasty breakfast], and [PLAUSIBLE CONNECTION: we see how a website about coffee should help you plan a more complete meal]. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a way to do this right now. Just for future reference, [OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE INVOLVEMENT: if we were able to do this, would you like to help us test, and would you be opposed to margarine]? For now, what if [SOMETHING CLOSE TO A SOLUTION: we began building a complementary breads chart, like [example]]?

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by scott_s on Monday September 15, 2008 @03:10PM (#304947)
And what if, by having only a superficial understanding of the problem, the customer is wrong?
Re:Stack Overflow Launches by petercooper on Monday September 15, 2008 @01:32PM (#304848)
Agreed; that's why I didn't get very far with the site (and I was a member during the beta period). It seems that people answer questions very quickly and it feels like you're in a contest for the "points" - who wants to compete against others for mere points on a single site? Not me - so I stopped going there.

That said, I think it will be excellent for those asking the questions, but for those answering..? It'll just be the prima donnas and gold-hoarders playing the game.

Re:Stack Overflow Launches by kaens on Monday September 15, 2008 @12:11PM (#304777)
I was amused by the contrast between (on the one hand) Joel's long list of instructions and "how-to" hints in his blog post, and (on the other hand) the seeming absence of instructions/guidance on the site itself.

The way I see it, the site is right now (mostly) good for two types of questions:

Really basic programming questions that could be answered by reading some docs.

Really domain-specific questions that are hard to find info on online. If you're working on something really interesting, but don't know enough about the domain to know where you should be looking or what you should be searching for, you can get really good guidance from the people on stack overflow who know what they're talking about.

It's also good for getting an idea of consensus about certain technologies.