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Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by pydry on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:28AM (#30451743)
What if most Ukrainians are polarized and want to become part of the EU/NATO or part of Russia and very little in between?

Neutral sounds better than civil war.

Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by tjansen on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:39AM (#30451833)
There was a referendum in 1991, and a huge majority (92%) voted for independence from Russia. This is a map showing the no-votes per region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_re...

The Crimea region was the only part of Ukraine that had a noticeable opposition (42% voted against independence). Even in the Eastern parts of Ukraine there was no region with more than 13% of votes against independence.

Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by pydry on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:06AM (#30452037)
A lot can change in 30 years.

Donbas/Luhansk also ran referendums in 2014, along with Crimea, with ~90% support for independence. These polls were denounced as unconstitutional and illegal by Kiev.

And, while it was denounced as not a free and fair vote, realistically Kiev would not ever have allowed these votes to happen in any shape or form.

Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by lalaland1125 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:19AM (#30452157)
It's funny that you bring up the Crimea referendum, which didn't even offer a choice for the status quo prior to the Russian invasion.

Not to mention the idea of holding a referendum with Russian troops occupying the area and no real outside observers is fundamentally off.

Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by pydry on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:09AM (#30452546)
The second option was to be part of Ukraine. It was supported by 2-3% of voters with 80% turnout. I dont see a meaningful distinction between this and the previous status quo.

Even Kiev doesnt believe a vote without the troops would have had a markedly different result, which is why it rejects the idea of holding a vote at all on constitutional grounds.

Many in the USSR rejected the idea of Ukrainian independence based upon a similar principle of the inviolability of Soviet borders.

Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by lalaland1125 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @10:43AM (#30455975)
The second option was to be a "part" of Ukraine under a different agreement than the one they had before invasion.
Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by pydry on Thursday February 24, 2022 @11:05AM (#30456301)
Do you genuinely believe that if that second option said "status quo" that the vote share would have jumped from 2% to > 50%?
Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by lalaland1125 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @11:45AM (#30456893)
I think if the second option was status quo and Russian military weren't occupying the area, and the "stay with Ukraine" side had been allowed to campaign, I think the vote share for stay would have been much higher. Even ignoring the potential of voter fraud due to Russia not allowing real third party observers.

I don't know exactly what it would be or if it would be over 50%, but we should reject the obvious sham that Russia carried out.

Re:Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack by pydry on Thursday February 24, 2022 @01:09PM (#30458107)
Pew Research found that 88% of crimeans wanted Kyiv to recognize the vote and 91% thought it was free and fair.

Do you think that they are wrong?

Do you subscribe to Kyiv's view that holding a vote is a criminal offence?