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Re:The Meme Leak Theory by croes on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:16AM (#30441155)
>First Amendment is one of America's finest and most resilient memes.

But it's only valid for US citizens. Other countries have rights that are valid for every human being.

"Human dignity is inviolable"

Didn't find that in the US constitution.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by Hokusai on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:42AM (#30441486)
Americans talk in hyperbole. Average is an insult. Any experience less than life changing is boring.

And most people in other countries are not aware.

I see how much money goes to American companies like Tesla meanwhile European companies like Mercedes-Benz get less investment and no media attention at all, even when they outperform their American counterparts.

We live in the age of the attention economy. I hope that advertising on the web is forbidden and we go back to good products over flashy newspaper press releases. Less memes more information.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by gruez on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @11:24AM (#30442772)
>I see how much money goes to American companies like Tesla meanwhile European companies like Mercedes-Benz get less investment and no media attention at all, even when they outperform their American counterparts.

That's not really because of American vs European, it's because traditional automaker vs EV disruptor. Tesla has a bigger market cap than all of the "big 3" US automakers combined.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by throwhauser on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:34AM (#30441380)
> But it's only valid for US citizens.

The US Constitution is applicable to anyone within the jurisdiction of the US, regardless of citizenship or immigration status (including undocumented).

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by thatjoeoverthr on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:27AM (#30441287)
But it is valid. “Congress shall make no law …” is actionable, and lets you challenge things in court. “Human dignity is inviolable” is a platitude. What can be done with it?
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by q-big on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:36AM (#30441414)
> “Human dignity is inviolable” is a platitude. What can be done with it?

This is the first sentence of the "Grundgesetz für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany):

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_for_the_Federal_Repu...

Absatz 1 (paragraph 1) (see https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/BJNR000010949.html):

> (1) Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar. Sie zu achten und zu schützen ist Verpflichtung aller staatlichen Gewalt.

> (1) Human dignity is inviolable. It is the duty of all state authorities [remark: "Gewalt" literally means "violence" in English] to respect and protect it.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by ionicgiraffe on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:37AM (#30452758)
In fact, I wanted to say that such concepts in laws that direct how other laws are made need be necessarily broad. If you think of it: freedom, dignity, citizenship, and so on, are not to be interpreted in absolute terms according to some official definition. The motivation for the law is fundamental, and concepts get narrowed down in laws of lower rank until the point at which they cannot be listed case by case, then interpretation by the judicial system enters into account, e.g., is the insult "f*g idiot" within the protected freedom of speech?
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by croes on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:50AM (#30441583)
"Human dignity is inviolable" is the reason why Germany has no death penalty.

So it's a lot.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by disgu on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:31AM (#30441334)
But there are laws restricting the 1st Amendment in the US.
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by hirundo on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:35AM (#30441391)
There are court decisions defining the scope of the 1st Amendment. There are no valid laws restricting it, since the 1st Amendment is in the Constitution and no law can supersede the constitution. Such laws that are written and passed are unconstitutional.

Edit: The above is mistaken. A law can restrict the 1st Amendment, or any other, if it survives "strict scrutiny":

Although "strict scrutiny leaves few survivors" and will usually strike down such laws when strict scrutiny is found to apply, "the government must show that there is a compelling, or very strong, interest in law, and that the law is either narrowly tailored or is the least restrictive means available to the government."

https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1966/strict-scrutin...

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by viro on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:42AM (#30441474)
Umm instead of wasting time here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...

as you can see a couple of those are laws like CP and "Threatening the president"

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by q-big on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:45AM (#30441509)
> There are no valid laws restricting [the scope of the 1st Amendment]

Copyright laws do that.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by ionicgiraffe on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:45AM (#30452813)
They do. I have seen news in Europe where they cannot reproduce the original excerpt (reading aloud instead) of some communication because of copyright laws and the original excerpt belonged to a competing media corporation that had won previous such cases in court.
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by disgu on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:45AM (#30441512)
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by viro on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:39AM (#30441437)
Like what? I have a feeling there aren't as many as you think. Most of them are about ordering people to commit literal violence/crimes.
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by disgu on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:45AM (#30441519)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...

There you have a bunch of examples. Free speech in the US is restricted. That's the point I was making. You can be okay with the restrictions in place but you cannot ignore that they're there. That's just factually wrong.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by BeefWellington on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:49AM (#30441577)
In a roundabout way libel and slander laws are a violation of the first amendment.

They're civil actions but it's the government through the courts that finds you guilty and imposes punishments, seizing assets, etc. It's very hard to win cases on those things as the judiciary does its best to still make it work within the structure of the constitution but it does nonetheless restrict my ability to say "viro eats kittens" without possible penalty imposed by the government.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by Robotbeat on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:22AM (#30441229)
You’re missing the point. Legally, it doesn’t exist in Canada. But collective belief is what underlies even the system of law, so if Canadians collectively are memed into it, it can take hold there, too. (This hasn’t happened, yet, FWIW.)
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by HideousKojima on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:58AM (#30441686)
Define "dignity." A slave in chains can have dignity, and a fabulously wealthy dictator or oligarch can have none, so I'm not sure what a promise that dignity is inviolable does for anyone, really.
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by ionicgiraffe on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:52AM (#30452877)
You are choosing to play with words instead of trying to understand what it meant. It can also be that you are trying to make a point of the broadness and the impossibility of providing an exhaustive definition. If we tried, we would do nothing else, for anything: is freedom actually freedom if I am not allowed to harm others gratuitously?

For the law, the slave and the dictator both have dignity, and lower-rank laws will go into detail into what that entails up to the point the judicial system would need to establish if a certain act violates the dignity of a human or not: e.g., "can we kill a dictator nude in a public place and exhibit their remains at the entrance of the presidential palace?" Does it violate their dignity (even if we consider undeserved?)?

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by croes on Thursday February 24, 2022 @12:38AM (#30450828)
Everything depends on definition how else was slavery possible on the US.
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by marcellus23 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:56AM (#30441662)
A consitution, by definition, describes how a government is supposed to run. It would be odd to find something like that in one.
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by croes on Thursday February 24, 2022 @12:34AM (#30450783)
It's the first sentence in the first article of the constitution of Germany:

(1) Human dignity is inviolable. It is the duty of all state authorities to respect and protect it.

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by marcellus23 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @09:11AM (#30454873)
> It is the duty of all state authorities to respect and protect it.

Presumably "state" here refers to Germany, yes?

Re:The Meme Leak Theory by ionicgiraffe on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:54AM (#30452895)
A government or a state?
Re:The Meme Leak Theory by marcellus23 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @09:12AM (#30454887)
State, if we're being specific.