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Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by Terry_Roll on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @10:25PM (#30437223)
I had my only personal UK bank account frozen without warning for weeks. The first I knew of it was when the call centre wouldnt answer the phone for 45mins from the shop where I had just tried to use the card. Had to abandon the process and go home. Next morning, call the bank call centre, do security get told they cant talk to me. The processes to get the account activated was interesting, I couldnt complain to the govt ombudsman until I had exhausted the complaints process with the bank. Problem was the bank wouldnt talk to me, every time I called the call centre, passed security checks they would tell me they couldnt talk to me, so you are kept in a legal limbo of sorts. Govt ombudsman couldnt do anything until the 1st stage had been completed. So the rules are exploitable as most lawyers will also demonstrate in court.

So yes have some cash but behind the scenes data sharing does go on, it could be a simple conversation down the pub or a contract to process some data or provide a service.

Signwritten vans & trucks give the game away to neighbours as to whats going on.

Get some crypto where you can draw cash out of a machine, there are plenty of bitcoin machines and online crypto currency exchanges to move money around the world. When the Greek govt debt crisis kicked off, bitcoins spiked as people moved their money out of Greece, some events like this will also trigger a spike in crypto because its less bulky remembering a string than shipping tonnes of gold across borders.

The less reliant you become on any one entity the less any one entity can mess you up especially when you dont agree with their politics, methods or employer.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by danuker on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:51AM (#30438729)
Wasn't the fact that they told you they could not talk to you considered "exhausting" the process?
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by zivkovicp on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @03:30AM (#30438974)
This is probably good advice, just remember that crypto is also digital and totally transparent (mostly). If you obtain your crypto via an exchange, then your wallet can be positively linked to your physical person, and (eventually) prohibiting transactions by blacklisting wallets would be trivial. :(

I imagine that is a ways off still because crypto is not _that_ mainstream, but I suspect the time to get started and make the effort to anonymise your wallet is now.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by selestify on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @04:09AM (#30439205)
Monero is a good thing to look into. Even if you don’t want to hold it yourself, swapping in and out of it will make the “paper” trail that much harder to follow.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by paypalthrowaway on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @05:45AM (#30439771)
I’ve heard a lot of reports of popular exchanges freezing accounts of customers who traded with other exchanges that don’t have strong KYC requirements. How am I supposed to exchange for Monero if Coinbase (and the state of New York) dislike it?

I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I genuinely don’t know what to do in order to use Monero.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by selestify on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:15PM (#30445038)
Where are these reports of popular exchanges freezing customer accounts? I'm also genuinely curious, because I've never heard of them, and a cursory Google search isn't turning up much.

As for exchanging for Monero, there's starting to be the option of atomic swaps with Bitcoin. Alternatively, you could also try going through one of the various non-KYC automated swapping services.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by selestify on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:03PM (#30447872)
Ahh -- it seems there are quite a few cases of what you mentioned here: https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by scld on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:12AM (#30439920)
Only use exchanges to put in cash or to do exchanges. If you're serious about crypto and want more than a few hundred dollars in there, you should get a ledger and move your money off of the exchanges (hardware wallet).
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by zikduruqe on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:25AM (#30439979)
Or, you can make your own bitcoin by hand. https://estudiobitcoin.com/do-you-trust-your-seed-dont-gener...
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by roenxi on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:38AM (#30440030)
The first generation of crypto is totally transparent, if people need to start using crypto to have political freedom of expression then no doubt more anonymous systems will gain prominence. There'll be something that draws broad parallels between the HTTP -> HTTPS transition.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by loceng on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @03:48AM (#30439090)
Once there are laws in place to force a check at a central service for blocked funds, certainly very easy them.

We must fix and strengthen our governments - there's no way around that.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by dijonman2 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @04:33AM (#30439336)
I’m confused. Shouldn’t we weaken our governments ability to freeze an account without due process?
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by EL_Loco on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @05:30AM (#30439704)
I think parent means that by weakening your government's ability to do things without due process is strengthening it. Assuming that your government has at its basis a respect for such things as due process, individual privacy etc.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by maccard on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:31AM (#30440008)
Or you could use two bank accounts? These things happen even day to day, sometimes cards fail, or a card reader acts up. I find it hard to see that the next logical leap from "one bank account in a country" is "global volatile decentralized currency with incredibly expensive transaction fees"

> its less bulky remembering a string than shipping tonnes of gold across borders.

Assuming you completely disregard the computation costs, yes.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by auggierose on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @07:04AM (#30440167)
Card reader acting up is very different from your bank account being frozen for weeks.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by maccard on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @08:08AM (#30440545)
Agreed, however it's also an experience that almost everyone has had, and the straightforward solution (carry two cards from two different banks) _also_ tends to resolve the issue of your bank account being frozen.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by auggierose on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @08:25AM (#30440690)
I've never had that experience, and it is a bit ridiculous of you to claim that. I am sure if everyone had that experience, cashless wouldn't be so popular. Did you have that experience to be locked out of your bank account for weeks?
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by dustymcp on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:50AM (#30441593)
Have multiple creditcards aswell, i have a mastercard and a visa for this sort of thing
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by gampleman on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @07:41AM (#30440360)
I've been told by Citizen's Advice before that if they don't want to talk to you, the best is to send a physical letter to their registered place of business with a clause such as "You have 7 business days to respond" etc. This then firmly places a time limit on how much stalling they can do.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by Terry_Roll on Thursday February 24, 2022 @01:27AM (#30451243)
Thats assuming Citizens Advice will even help you. My local Citizens Advice wouldnt help me, but thats headed up by a retired copper.

Edit: I've always found his ability to track me down in the middle of some woods when I was out walking to be a rather curious use of technology considering he was retired and wouldnt have access to mobile phone triangulation facilities or the gps facilities on my phone. However he outed himself when he went back to get some answers for me!

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by hughrr on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @05:10AM (#30439586)
Had the same thing with HSBC. I opened another bank account and keep a spare one going all the time.

Also always keep £500 rolled up in £20 notes somewhere. And make sure you don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by Terry_Roll on Thursday February 24, 2022 @12:07AM (#30450526)
Different devices for different banking, ie an iphone & mobile data for HSBC, a laptop and ADSL for Lloyds, the library, PC World & other shops with computers on display with net access for other bank accounts, besides the obligatory friend network, doing the above. Being in a city helps you blend into the background, being in the countryside will be like a virtual lock down.

Make sure you have a passport, because myself and someone else spent the best part of an hour or two trying to past Google's I'm not a robot when trying to get a passport. The fact Govt uses Googles I'm not a Robot should also show you there is more to Google than meets the eye.

I can see why the rich have dual citizenship and multiple passports, with the richest having diplomatic passports, making them untouchable anywhere in the world!

It might seem like a lot of effort, but when you realise who easy it is to set people up, buy off judges, police, medical experts, etc, you'll realise blackmail can come from everyone and anyone including your family, because there are some messed up beliefs out there.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @05:45AM (#30439770)
> Also always keep £500 rolled up in £20 notes somewhere

This is good advice, always have some cash around; in these uncertain times, I'd even argue to increase the amount. Make sure to have a record somewhere that you have it (a photo on your phone with e.g. ID and a dated newspaper? I dunno) so that IF you get your home broken into, you can prove it to your insurance.

Of course, there's plenty of places to hide a stack of bills, or distribute it across multiple spots.

If you're concerned about the downfall of the economy, you can get 'slabs' of valuable metals as well, that can be broken off into smaller denominations. The downside of going for those (at least in NL) is that you can't really use them to bet on the price of gold going up or down, because as a consumer you have to pay VAT for them (21%).

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by simonjgreen on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:37AM (#30440026)
The "trick" in the UK here is to use gold coins, as they are a currency. There's a plethora of places that will bulk sell you gold coins to use as a store of wealth.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by Reason077 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:00AM (#30441710)
All investment gold is exempt from VAT in the UK, including gold bars etc. However, legal tender gold coins, minted by the Royal Mint, may have additional advantages as they are also exempt from other taxes such as capital gains tax.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by hkt on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:35AM (#30438647)
Credit unions are also good for this: they won't necessarly have the modern comforts of a bank, but your local one (if you have one) will do cash based accounts, in person. They still KYC but since they're not plugged in to swift etc they might work well as a backup plan in situations like yours.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by inter_netuser on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @08:39AM (#30440809)
They are plugged into SWIFT, if not directly, then whoever happens to be their backoffice provider, which is usually a large bank.

They are all subject to the same regs, and most credit unions aren't any better than large banks.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by hkt on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:33PM (#30473185)
I'm writing from the UK where most credit unions don't offer interbank transfers or cards. If you need somewhere to stow cash, it is likely they won't be as heavily overseen by regulators here. Some are less basic but many are, I suspect, small enough to fly under the radar.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by circlefavshape on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @07:53AM (#30440437)
Why was your account frozen?
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by Terry_Roll on Thursday February 24, 2022 @12:11AM (#30450557)
Unusually I was asked I was transferring some money, never been asked before why I was moving my money, but earlier like 5-10mins earlier I had read on the DailyMail about some US/UK military abuses going on which annoyed me, so when I was asked why I was moving it, I replied "maybe I'm going to join ISIS". That was all I said, nothing else said, but lets face it, you cant even tell if you are talking to the staff in the call centre or if the phone company/security services are doing a man in the middle attack, international phone standards and internal phone standards make so much possible.

People get setup without even knowing it but the setup might not occur until years or decades later.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by DeathArrow on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @01:35AM (#30438356)
Better than crypto, you can store some money in a foreign bank account with a debit card attached and withdraw from the ATM when you need.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by i_like_waiting on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @01:51AM (#30438428)
afaik its complicated to create bank account in country where you don't live no? I always had to provide proof of address or something, from that country, which is complicated if you are not millionaire with property here and there.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by searchableguy on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @03:52AM (#30439108)
Not super complicated with fintech providing multi currency accounts.

You can also get e-residency in many countries like estonia, lithuania, etc and avail their government services digitally. You will be able to open a bank account and sign stuff.

There are many options available.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by i_like_waiting on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @04:52AM (#30439472)
Okay, but in comparison whats easier, spend 3-5 hours to set up a crypto wallet or few weeks investigating e-residency, applying for it, then opening bank account.

People think that e-residency is just a breeze to do, but people who try, discover that its much harder than thought. Still easier than normal residency, thats true.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by malka on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @03:18AM (#30438877)
In the UE it is quite easy
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by smcl on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @04:30AM (#30439315)
Where is that? Typo for UAE?
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by vianneychevalie on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @05:40AM (#30439748)
European Union ; in French "Union Européenne", "UE"
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by malka on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @07:05AM (#30440174)
I mistakenly used the french acronym, sorry for the confusion
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by smcl on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:58AM (#30442451)
Ahhhh :D
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by tiborsaas on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:51AM (#30438728)
There are plenty of fintech companies that allow you to keep money without much hassle. Also, when you are on vacation, consider paying a visit to a bank, it's not that hard.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by ekianjo on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @01:49AM (#30438417)
you think those cant be blocked?
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by hanselot on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @01:44AM (#30438396)
So the same problem, just a different bank?