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Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by pessimizer on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @07:40PM (#30436019)
This is simply not true. Not only is cashless not at all more convenient than cash for minor purchases, and not only are 10% of the US population unbanked, but in addition the access of third parties to purchase records just alarms people.

In my circles, I often see people withdrawing out pocket money on a regular basis for small purchases, and using cash for large peer-to-peer purchases that they're unsure of the tax implications of. Cashless is largely reserved for restaurants and grocery stores.

With government reporting regulations hitting paypal and other fake banks, I bet this pattern will become more widespread. Just let somebody have to fill out an extra form on their taxes because of excessive bill-splitting; they'll change their habits instantly.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by decafninja on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @08:50PM (#30436563)
I pay with my credit card even for <$1 purchases. It is much more convenient than pulling out a dollar bill and waiting to get change in coins (which I despise carrying).

In the case where they don't accept credit, and I can't be bothered to go make the purchase somewhere else, I'll just tell them to take the dollar bill and keep the change. Not having to deal with loose coins is worth it.

How is carrying, paying with, and managing cash in your wallet more convenient than tapping a credit card or your phone?

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:01AM (#30438478)
You are a very tech savvy, generous and hygienic person.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by leppr on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @10:10PM (#30437142)
To paraphrase the message you're replying to:

The inconvenience of credit cards manifests itself after making the payment: when you're filling taxes, or when whatever information derived from your payments is used against you.

You're trading immediate versus delayed inconvenience.

At least that was the argument. I won't argue that most people will never feel these second order inconveniences.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by decafninja on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @10:25PM (#30437224)
Not sure I understand. Do you mean from the point of view of the merchant?

From the point of view of the consumer, I don't think I've ever done anything differently in regards to tax paperwork with regards to differences in method of payment.

Even from the merchant's point of view, I would imagine credit card payments are easier to keep track of for documenting purposes. Unless, of course, your intention is tax evasion, which I know quite a few merchants (including family) do with cash.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by thfuran on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @11:10PM (#30437495)
The only thing they could mean is tax evasion. Otherwise the built-in transaction history make credit cards far, far more convenient than cash for record keeping.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by walterbell on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @12:46AM (#30438072)
Modern point of sale systems generate a transaction history for accounting, including cash transactions.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by throwaway22032 on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @10:20PM (#30437191)
In the asymmetric centralised case of a reasonably established business accepting payments from thousands of people (and barely, if ever, issuing payments in the other direction) it's not. It's about the same, barring this hyperbolic stuff about "despising" coins.

In the generalised case, e.g. I need to pay my friend, or a builder, or a taxi driver, or someone at a market stall - essentially any standalone human, it's a complete mess. You need an account, so you need to decide whether you're an individual or a business, then you have that account, then you need a terminal for cards or an app or bank numbers for them to use an app to transfer or...

With cash: here is $20, done.

Cashless payments impose a bureaucratic structure which simply does not exist with cash. You give me thing I have thing, job done, bish bash bosh.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by decafninja on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @10:27PM (#30437234)
I'm not sure I quite understand, but doesn't the bureacratic structure of cashless payments also provide the benefit of automatically documenting all your transactions for you so that you don't have to keep track of them manually?

Unless, as I mentioned in another reply, your intention is to hide such transactions for whatever purpose - i.e. I know quite a few merchants use cash payments to avoid paying taxes.

But that's all from the merchant's perspective. From the consumer's perspective, how does any of what you mentioned above matter? I have an account, a friend has an account. I send him money via Venmo or Paypal or whatever. The middleman might take a trivial fee for the transaction, but it's so trivial I nor the recipient are likely to care, and is outweighed by the convenience factor over using cash.

With cash, we have to meet and exchange the money. Or use snailmail. With say Venmo, I open the app, press a few buttons, and my friend has the money in seconds even if he is physically hundreds of miles away.

If I'm paying a merchant, then I just swipe or tap my card to the reader, wait a few seconds. I get a receipt and I'm on my way. I'm old enough that I made a few online purchases by sending cashier's checks through the mail. It was not a pleasant experience.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by jjav on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @01:48AM (#30438414)
> With say Venmo, I open the app, press a few buttons, and my friend has the money in seconds

But they very much don't have the money yet. The transaction may have posted (if you happened to have connectivity) but it hasn't settled. It may be blocked in all kinds of ways before they actually get the money. Their account might be suspended. The payment processor may simply decide to never pay it (paypal being infamous for this).

With cash, the moment the object and the bills change hands, the funds transfer has irrecovably settled without any external dependency being possible.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by Sankozi on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @04:58AM (#30439514)
> With cash, the moment the object and the bills change hands, the funds transfer has irrecovably settled without any external dependency being possible.

It isn't even remotely true. You might get mugged, you might lose money, you might get counterfeit money.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by walterbell on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @11:32AM (#30442876)
Those are pre/post-transaction risks, not settlement risks.

Cashless systems also have their own pre/post-transaction risks.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by throwaway22032 on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @10:35PM (#30437285)
Meh. I don't really have a reply for this because we just obviously have really different worldviews so it's not going to really work.

There is no consumer, or merchant, or hiding of transactions, or taxes, or Venmo, or Paypal, or any of this stuff.

I'm standing next to you and you have an apple. I give you $1 for apple. I don't care about any of that other shit, it's like this whole invented set of problems that you've got a whole lexicon for.

Yes, if I buy something online I don't send cash in the post. That should be bloody obvious.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by decafninja on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @11:00PM (#30437424)
Fair enough. I acknowledge people have different viewpoints on this issue.

Believe it or not, my wife is actually a proponent of cash transactions. She has not been able to convince me of the benefits either. We've agreed to disagree. She carries the cash, and to my benefit she spots me whenever we encounter a merchant that doesn't accept credit cards since I don't carry cash.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by throwaway22032 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @08:34AM (#30440777)
You don't seem to see the difference in language that you're subtly slipping in without realising. It's like a form of newspeak.

"Accepting" credit card payments or bank transfers is meaningful. Accepting cash is not.

Anyone can by default accept cash. There is no-one who cannot accept cash. You don't even need to have like, hands to count it with, I can put it in your pocket.

In order to "not accept" cash you have to intentionally make the choice to be an arse and decline it.

By contrast digital stuff is this whole web of "need an account, need an app, need a terminal, need this, ...". It's not automatic.

It's like the difference between walking and having a car.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by CogitoCogito on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @12:17AM (#30437936)
> She has not been able to convince me of the benefits either.

…

> She carries the cash, and to my benefit she spots me whenever we encounter a merchant that doesn't accept credit cards since I don't carry cash.

I’m having trouble understanding these sentences written together in such short succession. Are you being serious?

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by decafninja on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @01:22AM (#30438280)
Not sure what you mean, but yes I'm serious.

I rarely if ever carry cash. Nearly every transaction I make is via credit card. The only time I'll usually have cash is when traveling overseas (for emergencies, in the foreign currency, not USD). I find cash terribly inconvenient and annoying to use.

Meanwhile my wife loves using cash. I don't understand it. It's not for any privacy or idealogical reason - she says she just likes the old fashioned feel of handling physical money. She doesn't understand my dislike of using cash. As I said, we've agreed to disagree.

Every now and then when we're out together we'll encounter the rare merchant that doesn't accept credit card. Then she'll spot me with her cash. Otherwise we'll typically use our joint credit card. When she is out by herself she's much more likely to use the cash she always carries.

Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:09AM (#30438510)
70 years after plastic was invented, people are seriously been proud and think of themselves as progressive and tech savvy because they use plastic.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by decafninja on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @07:25AM (#30440282)
The thought has not occurred to me even once. It is purely a matter of convenience.
Re:In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail ser... by sirwhinesalot on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:16AM (#30438546)
If the only benefit of cash is dealing with cavemerchants, that's covered by keeping some money around for such cases. It's not something you'd normally do so the thought is perfectly congruent.

The only real advantage to cash is avoiding government overreach. It is most definitely not convenient in any way