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Re:Times are great for programmers now. How does it end? by chii on Monday February 21, 2022 @02:45AM (#30412970)
and yet i don't tell my plumbers to give me a standup for the day.

I tell them what i wanted achieved, and i pay. it gets done. If there's a delay, i expect the plumber to tell me promptly, and i re-evaluate the work.

Some programmers do get treated this way - consultants and such. But the majority is not - they are considered a cog in a machine.

Re:Times are great for programmers now. How does it end? by edanm on Monday February 21, 2022 @03:13AM (#30413147)
Plumbers that you personally hire to your house are similar to software consultants. They're often more than "just" plumbers - they're small business owners, so they do a lot of things besides plumbing (e.g. marketing, business management, etc). Again, similar to software contractors.

But take plumbers working construction on a 30-story building. They're usually part of a team, and work together with dozens if not hundreds of other professionals. Do you think they don't have meetings where they get together with the other teams, discuss problems, progress etc?

I'm not defending stand-ups here, btw. Sometimes they make sense, sometimes they don't. But if your measure of "developers are treated badly" is "developers are asked to be in a 10-minute meeting to talk about their work progress", I think you're missing the forest for the trees in terms of what are and aren't good working conditions.

Re:Times are great for programmers now. How does it end? by jseban on Monday February 21, 2022 @03:41AM (#30413323)
Yeah but it's because your plumbers have judgement and will not start to demolish a whole house because they discovered a sub optimal detail in the initial construction of the plumbing. Or install a high pressure car wash in someone's bathroom that they obviously don't need.
Re:Times are great for programmers now. How does it end? by ManuelKiessling on Monday February 21, 2022 @03:35AM (#30413275)
But the boss of your plumber might demand to have a daily standup with him or her if he is so inclined.

If you want to be treated as a payed consultant, become a payed consultant, with all the disadvantages and advantages which follow from that.

Re:Times are great for programmers now. How does it end? by WJW on Monday February 21, 2022 @03:16AM (#30413164)
The plumber at your home is exactly like a freelance developer though? The plumbing equivalent of working as a dev for a bigco would probably be assembling engines in a factory or something like that, and factories most definitely have start-of-shift meetings. Even if it's just "pay extra attention to workplace safety y'all, the inspection might come by today".