Re:SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform spa...
by bumby on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:26PM
(#30380153)
I think there's a difference in methodology here. When those numbers of the shuttle are listed, they're including all the upfront R&D spread across the life-cycle of the program. I believe the Falcon costs disregard all those as a sunk cost and only list the actual "launch" costs
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Re:SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform spa...
by caoilte on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:31PM
(#30380195)
yep. $1.5billion in 2010 prices per flight including r&d. 1.2 without.
which is still 1.5 billion per flight in 2021 prices. So Elon needs to get the price down to $15mil to hit his target.
5% is still pretty good tho. And it may go lower.
Re:SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform spa...
by bumby on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:47PM
(#30380354)
I think this might miss the point. Is the $70MM/launch tag including the R&D? Does it include the R&D that is essentially given to SpaceX through their SpaceAct agreement?
Imagine if Tesla gave me all their R&D and manufacturing know-how and offered to help me out whenever I hit a snag, wouldn't I look great by showing everyone how much cheaper I can build an EV? That's why I think it's a bit of a faulty comparison. Still great, but some of these comparison border on the edge of hype
Re:SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform spa...
by kashkhan on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:32PM
(#30380197)
shuttle before columbia disaster was absorbing more than half ($8B) the NASA budget($16B) and doing 4-6 flights a year
Re:SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform spa...
by bumby on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:43PM
(#30380316)
I'm not going to argue that the shuttle wasn't a boondoggle. The same reasons it was are the same reasons it's not a great comparison. Very different mission scope/requirements, having to conform to multiple masters (DoD and NASA) regarding the design, etc. The shuttle was required to do things F9 is not.
Re:SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform spa...
by bryanlarsen on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:33PM
(#30381155)
Falcon9 1.0 R&D costs were $300M.
Re:SpaceX’s monstrous, dirt-cheap Starship may transform spa...
by bumby on Friday February 18, 2022 @08:17AM
(#30385304)
Again, I don't think that's an apt comparison. The NAFCOM numbers used in that calculation don't include things like program support costs, contingency costs, contractor fees, etc. Those are usually baked into the NASA figures sighted though. Add on top of that, NASA will sometimes independently fund R&D related directly to issues experiences. SpaceX can be the direct beneficiaries of that research without having any of the costs on their books.
I'm confident SpaceX would still be substantially lower than NASA if they had, but we need to be consistent in the methodology or it just becomes the equivalent of cherry picking data to underscore an already valid point.