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Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by adam_arthur on Thursday February 17, 2022 @02:42PM (#30377695)
Article is dated. Mortgage rates are up over 1% since then, and slated to continue rising rapidly.

Affordability will be just about record lows at 5%. Inflation adjusted home prices have already surpassed the 2000s peak, and are a few std deviations above historical norms.

If inflation doesn't abate, we can expect 6% mortgages in the near future.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by hackerfromthefu on Friday February 18, 2022 @01:35PM (#30389383)
I don't think rates are going to go up like they came down, maybe ever again unless there's some kind of bretton woods reset.

This is because of maths and the inverse effects of downward and upward shifts.

- If you borrow $100 at 5% your interest is $5pa, which matches your discretionary repayment ability.

- Rates drop to 3% and you can afford to borrow $167 at 3% for the same $5pa. This is a 2% or 40% of total drop.

- New buyer buys in at cost of $167.

- To make it somewhat realistic lets say inflation comes along and income rises, now you have $6pa repayment ability.

- With a larger $167 loan, your $6 repayment can afford a rate rise to only 3.55%, this is a .55% rise or 18% total increase.

.

So while the rates dropped 2%, a rise of more than .5% bankrupts all the new buyers. The government is sensitive to this because many people just bought together at the new prices and low rates, and it becomes untenable when large amount of the population lose their homes at once.

The same dynamic applies to business loans, government balance sheets.

US is an outlier with 30 year fixed loans, the rest of the world basically does loans on variable rates or fixed for maybe 5 years a time.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by adam_arthur on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:36PM (#30391434)
There is more resistance to the upside, for sure. But the free market sets the long duration interest rate. If core inflation persists at 5%, rates will surely rise to compensate.

They are mostly held low right now due to belief that CPI spike is transitory.

You're right that once rates rise sufficiently, it creates recession risk, which then puts downward pressure on rates. But we can likely get to 3% on the 10y and 5% mortgages before hitting that ceiling.

Keep in mind how sharply rates rose in the 70s. Though at the time debt burdens were not very high, for sure. But persistently high inflation will lead to a similar effect.

We are seeing strong signs of a wage price spiral starting to form in the data

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by runako on Thursday February 17, 2022 @02:49PM (#30377767)
This is absolutely all correct, and also supports the basic argument that houses are not wildly more unaffordable now than they were in (say) 1990.
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by adam_arthur on Thursday February 17, 2022 @02:50PM (#30377790)
Affordability is almost as bad as the 2000s peak already. If you judge by housing payment relative to income
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by runako on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:10PM (#30378018)
Would you mind sharing a link to your source? I would love to update my mental cache?

Thanks!

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by adam_arthur on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:18PM (#30378114)
I'll try to find the chart I saw on this recently.

But here's home price relative to median income, which is at a record. Then apply logic that mortgage rates are 4.1% now and likely to be 5% soon.

https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-inco...

2000s affordability was still worse at the peak, but will shift quickly if mortgage rates continue to rise.

Anyway, will edit when I find

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by runako on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:11PM (#30378730)
Interesting, I have not seen Bankrate & Nerdwallet differ by this much before. (Bankrate is reporting rates in the range around 3.5%.)
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by adam_arthur on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:43PM (#30379714)
https://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage-rates

^ is the source most in the industry use for the current rate. It tends to be the most up to date

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by runako on Thursday February 17, 2022 @10:40PM (#30381891)
Jumbos at a half point below conforming. Is that normal? They are reporting 30-year fixed jumbo below a 5/1 ARM. Is this just a dislocation?
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by adam_arthur on Friday February 18, 2022 @12:14AM (#30382371)
Jumbos are usually below non jumbo conventional.

https://www.builderonline.com/money/mortgage-finance/heres-w...

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by runako on Friday February 18, 2022 @08:57AM (#30385687)
Thank you!