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Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by twblalock on Monday February 14, 2022 @10:14PM (#30342272)
It seems like these protests ought to be solvable by the police, using normal police powers, without resorting to emergency measures or doing things like freezing accounts and suspending truckers' licenses.

Why not do the obvious thing: send the police in to arrest people who won't leave. Tow their trucks. That worked at the border the other day -- why wouldn't it work in Ottawa too? It's not like the Canadian police haven't dealt with large protests in the capital before.

If that approach doesn't work, then it might make sense use emergency powers. But why go straight to emergency powers without trying to clear people out the normal way?

For me the main takeaway from the protests so far is that the Canadian police are either afraid to, or unwilling to, enforce the law, and the government at all levels is afraid to make the police do their jobs.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by rpeden on Monday February 14, 2022 @10:44PM (#30342509)
The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement.

They claimed they didn't have enough manpower and needed help from the provincial and federal governments.

Why they were so poorly prepared when the convoy was broadcasting its intentions in advance is a great question, but it also doesn't help now.

The Ottawa Police Service abandoned the people of the city for weeks and now can't resolve the problem on its own.

So I guess the answer to "why go straight to emergency powers without trying to clear people out the normal way?" is because the people whose job it was to handle this the normal way raised the white flag about 24 hours in and haven't done much about it since.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by 6nf on Monday February 14, 2022 @11:02PM (#30342646)
>The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement.

This is not correct. The Ottawa police have repeatedly said that they're ready to arrest anyone breaking the law but currently it is not illegal to park in public roads with trucks and the truck drivers are mostly abiding by all laws. Less than half a dozen people have been arrested because there's no laws being broken.

The reason they are not doing any enforcement is because they have no legal authority to kick out the bulk of the protestors.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by rescripting on Monday February 14, 2022 @11:13PM (#30342702)
Ottawa resident here, this is so far off base I’d call it propaganda.

Fireworks in the downtown core nightly. Air horns for days on end. Harassment, assaults and intimidation targeted towards minorities or those wearing a mask. Public urination, defication.

Even “it’s not illegal to park on public roads” is false because they’re parked across all lanes, blocking north/south access to several blocks.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by 6nf on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:48AM (#30343257)
How many people have been arrested for breaking laws? Last I checked it was 4.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by mmastrac on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:04AM (#30343325)
This is no proof that laws are not being broken.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by 6nf on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:19AM (#30343679)
What if I gave you a video of the Ottawa police chief begging for people to report more crimes because they are unable to find more people to arrest?
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by rescripting on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:16AM (#30345463)
He said they cannot respond to incidents reported on social media, so please call them in. This was in response to a question from a reporter about an incident they saw on social media.

Enforcement is non existent. The police are so afraid of escalating what are clearly a volatile group that they’ve opted to arrest only when it’s unavoidable. Whether or not that I keeping a lid on the situation is up for debate, but what isn’t up for debate is that laws are being broken and it’s making life hell for residents.

Oh, also, three days ago protestors jammed the emergency lines with phony calls. It would ring until the line disconnected. It’s a miracle no deaths were directly attributed to this.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by Breza on Thursday February 24, 2022 @12:19PM (#30457445)
This makes more sense than GP. I can't imagine it's legal to block traffic in Canada. If a car breaks down on a Canadian highway, do the authorities throw up their hands and say "If only we could do something!" I imagine they tow the car pretty quickly.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by rpeden on Monday February 14, 2022 @11:16PM (#30342718)
Can you find where they said that? Because their press release says otherwise: https://www.ottawapolice.ca/Modules/News/index.aspx?page=2&n...

As noted in the release, blocking a public road the way they've been doing seems to be a violation of section 423(g) of the Criminal Code: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-423.ht...

Note that the Criminal Code defines "highway" as "a road to which the public has the right of access, and includes bridges over which or tunnels through which a road passes."

There's also mischief - section 430(1)(c): https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-430.ht...

They've certainly interfered with Centretown residents' lawful enjoyment of their property.

Not to mention Highway Traffic Act violations. Plus other Criminal Code violations for the train horns (and while we're at it, even by-law violations). The reality is that the Ottawa Police have had plenty of tools at their disposal but have chosen not to. I don't mean to blame the individual officers - I've seen quite a few of them on the live streams trying their best. I see it more as a failure of leadership.

And I get that during a protest, it's better for police to err on the side of not nailing people for every infraction they can. But it seems like they have the tools to do a lot of than they've done - and have had these tools available since the beginning.

Also, in fairness - it could be they have intel about weapons like the ones the RCMP seized at the Alberta blockade today. That would explain their reluctance, and would mean they are really stuck between a rock and a hard place because if they step up enforcement and kick off an armed conflict, they'll get blamed for that, too. So it might be a bit of a no-win situation.

But if that's the case, it's not very visible from the outside - making the whole situation understandably frustrating for citizens who feel like they are paying $350mil a year and not getting enough protection in return.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by 6nf on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:49AM (#30343265)
The roads are not blocked, the truckers have kept lanes open for emergency vehicles etc.

The police have begged repeatedly for people to report lawbreaking to them so they can arrest more people.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by bcrl on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @07:52PM (#30368171)
I was physically in the downtown core in Ottawa last week. There are plenty of roads with no lanes open for emergency vehicles. My bank is closed because employees can't get into the parking lots they normally use. One of the restaurants a monthly meetup I am part of frequents doesn't feel safe opening up.

If I left my car parked in the middle of the road in Ottawa it would be towed within a couple of hours. It's complete bullshit that there are no laws for the police to enforce.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by raxxorrax on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:02AM (#30370589)
Yeah, well it is a lockdown.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by bcrl on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:38AM (#30372407)
No, it's not a lockdown. The province lifted those restrictions on January 31st provided you're vaccinated.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by slothtrop on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:24AM (#30346793)
Scapegoated you mean. There's been no shortage of pleading and complaints from residents, police refuse to comply. To call it "begging" on the police's behalf is a farce.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by 6nf on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:35PM (#30353814)
Police have limited powers to act on public complaints. You can't arrest people that have not broken any laws. Begin annoying is not illegal.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by slothtrop on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @11:50AM (#30362318)
> You can't arrest people that have not broken any laws.

Train horns in residential areas, let alone at night, are against the law. Harassment is against the law. Parking vehicles in intersections is against the law. Do I need to go on? Stop pretending this isn't what residents are taking issue with, no one gives a fuck about protesting in and of itself.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by 6nf on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @03:39PM (#30365369)
I'm not pretending anything. All I'm saying is that honking horns is not an arrestable offense. Parking in intersections is not an arrestable offense. These are tickets and fines.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by rpeden on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @09:50PM (#30369004)
It is an arrestable offense and it's not even borderline. Honking air horns and train horns in (or near) a residential area is an easy mischief charge under the criminal code, as mentioned above.

Here they are around 11pm last night: https://youtu.be/bZ6d2rnUvi8?t=1988

Plenty of truck horns, a train horn, and someone continually engaging his Jake brake. There are apartments 50 meters away on Sparks St. And if memory serves, there are plenty more on Queen St. close enough to be kept awake by that much noise at that time of night. It's difficult to see how that's not depriving residents of lawful enjoyment of their property.

That's an indictable offense, which makes it an arrestable offense as per the code:

495 (1) A peace officer may arrest without warrant

(a) a person who has committed an indictable offence or who, on reasonable grounds, he believes has committed or is about to commit an indictable offence;

I realize this isn't what you want, but the law means what it says, not what you think it should mean. If you want to change it, you're free to run for political office.

But on that note, a big issue we face is that while anyone can decide to run for election in theory, in practice it's way, way easier to become an MP if you're already wealthy and can afford to take the time away from work to run a successful campaign.

So in reality, running to become a member of Parliament is least accessible to those whose voices need to be heard to most. I don't know what the right answer is, but I don't think that harassing your fellow citizens to try and blackmail the government into doing what you want is the way to go.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @03:42PM (#30365412)
Refusing to move out of the intersection, for weeks, probably is arrestable. They'll find something to charge you with. Refusal to disperse, if nothing else.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by rpeden on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @09:58PM (#30369046)
It probably requires less than weeks to qualify for an intimidation charge per section 423(1)(g):

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-423.ht...

Highway, in this context, means any public road.

Early on, you could maybe argue you came to protest and there was really nowhere else to park. But after a few days, given the convoy's stated intent was to shut down Ottawa, it's difficult to argue that you're not trying to make residents abstain from their lawful right to drive down Kent St. or Wellington St if you're still blocking the roads when there are plenty of other places you could park and then walk or bus to the hill to protest.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by slothtrop on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @04:02PM (#30365633)
They're abstaining from ticketing and fining. From doing anything, in most cases. Making this about purely "arrests" is playing coy, but notwithstanding, if offenders persist they can be arrested.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by wrycoder on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @04:12PM (#30365754)
I heard they had backed off on the honking.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by 6nf on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @04:33PM (#30366027)
They did, you can check one of the many livestreams on Youtube for the whole history of the honking back to the first few days of the convoy protest
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by rfrey on Monday February 14, 2022 @11:27PM (#30342780)
Tow truck companies at a blocked Alberta border crossing were reporting death threats from American extremists when their companies appeared on video recordings of the blockade. The RCMP reported they were unable to contract towing companies, apparently out of fear of retribution from 20 miles south.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by canucker2016 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:14AM (#30344705)
The Ottawa police haven't been able to get any towing companies to come in and tow away any of the heavy trucks. From the articles I've read, the trucks at the border crossing were lighter pickup trucks, which can be towed away with regular tow trucks.

Some of the reasons listed as to the reluctance of towing companies to participate: - the heavy truck towing companies get much of their business from the truck industry. If these towing companies were to tow away these heavy trucks, they may lose much of that business. - many of the towing companies support the freedom convoy and their participants - fear of violence against tow truck operators if they try to tow away these trucks

see https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-protest-truck-t...

the police and government had ample time to prepare for the protest.

They should have restricted vehicle access near Parliament Hill once they heard the protesters were heading to Ottawa.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by ckdarby on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:09AM (#30347427)
In this case wouldn't it be fairly straightforward to just have the city buy a tow truck, paint without branding and have a worker of the city just tow? I mean I'd suggest having any department do this.

There must be day to day things disrupted enough that someone's job has been disrupted with this all going on that can be reallocated to this.

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by canucker2016 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:29PM (#30356368)
from the above CBC article, there are 500 (down to 360 as of today, Feb 15) heavy trucks in the "red zone" - one or even a handful of heavy truck towers is not enough.

also from the CBC article, excerpts:

====

While the city likely has some vehicles with heavy-duty towing capacity for large OC Transpo vehicles, they also did not provide a response when asked how many they had.

Hooking up a commercial truck to a heavy-duty tower — sometimes called a "wrecker" — takes at least 30 minutes, Whan said.

It also takes time to tow the trucks to wherever they're being relocated to, and if the City of Ottawa did attempt it, they'd need to find a sizable space to put them.

Police don't think towing the trucks is an effective solution, said Matt Skof, president of the Ottawa Police Association.

"You can tow all you want — they're just going to return to the location, so it hasn't resolved the issue," Skof said. "And where are you putting all these vehicles?"

====

Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by raxxorrax on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:04AM (#30370605)
I don't think you can tow a truck that doesn't want to be towed. You have to have a legal reason to do so as well.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by dade_ on Monday February 14, 2022 @10:31PM (#30342384)
Watch the Toronto Police Service handle the trucker convoy/protests. No emergency powers needed. Police in Canada are generally well trained so I am baffled by what is going on in Ottawa only a few hours drive away. https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=2376560
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by coding123 on Monday February 14, 2022 @11:14PM (#30342704)
At the end of the day, at some point the police are not going to do things they don't agree with.
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by twblalock on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @03:08PM (#30365035)
What makes you think the Ottawa police agree with the protesters?
Re:Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act by Breza on Thursday February 24, 2022 @12:26PM (#30457559)
I don't even think the officers' politics matters all that much. The primary motivation of my cop friends is to get home safe at the end of the day. Gigantic disruptions that have the potential to turn violent are a bad thing.