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Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by barbazoo on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @05:38PM (#30279605)
I remember at the very beginning people jumping from the fact that there is a lab in Wuhan to the conclusion that it must have come from there which is different than what's happening nowadays where it's a theory based on data or am I looking at this wrong?

In the beginning it had a very xenophobic after taste, at least what laypeople were sharing on social media.

To be clear, I don't care much if it came from a lab. I'd probably even prefer it at least then we can do something about it and avoid it going forward rather than this being a random nature thing that could happen again at any time.

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by ipaddr on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @05:44PM (#30279716)
It was labelled as racist and sold through the news. Many people felt that xenophobia aftertaste. The message was designed to make you feel that way.
Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by woodruffw on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @05:54PM (#30279847)
> It was labelled as racist and sold through the news. Many people felt that xenophobia aftertaste.

You don't remember when the sitting president called it "kung flu"[1]? I don't need a newspaper to see the xenophobia in that.

[1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-53173436

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by barbazoo on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @06:22PM (#30280204)
I don't live in the US so that didn't really carry any weight for us.
Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by MathCodeLove on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @06:00PM (#30279940)
What is the xenophobia in that? Jokingly calling a virus that originated in China after a martial art that originated in China.

That's xenophobic... how?

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by woodruffw on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @06:14PM (#30280096)
It’s xenophobic for the same reason that any ethnic or national joke can be: it takes an incidental fact (we believe that COVID originated in China) and mixes it into a stereotyped ethnic or national identity (kung fu is from China and Americans think of kung fu when they think of China).

Put another way: it takes our laziest view of a ethnicity and uses it to make light of a disease that we think came from there, one that everybody is unhappy about. It doesn’t take much to see the latent xenophobia in that.

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by ejb999 on Thursday February 10, 2022 @11:44AM (#30288812)
where were all the offended people when we had the 'spanish flu' or the 'german measles'.
Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by woodruffw on Thursday February 10, 2022 @01:39PM (#30290567)
What is the point of this comment? We can and should do better than our progenitors.

Also, it's worth actually reading up on why we called it the Spanish Flu: our allies in WWI originally called it the "American Flu," but changed it to avoid offending us.

Edit: it's also worth nothing that (1) "Kung Flu" is significantly different in content from "Spanish Flu," and (2) it doesn't have to be the case for anyone to be offended for xenophobia to be wrong.

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by barbazoo on Thursday February 10, 2022 @01:33PM (#30290482)
While I'm sure they probably were people that got offended by it I like to think that we've grown to be more sensitive to these kinds of issues in the past 100 years to not tolerate present day xenophobia based on past xenophobia.

TIL that there were "German measels", in Germany we just called them "measels".

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by morelisp on Thursday February 24, 2022 @09:22AM (#30455016)
"German measles" is Röteln, more properly in English rubella (vs. measles / Masern, also often confused with rubella due to some languages using "rubeola" for measles). The name also has nothing to do with Germany; it's a mistranslation of "germanus", cognate to "germane", i.e. a disease "like measles".

In other words, it's not German and it's not measles. Hopefully a lesson in using this naming pattern for diseases...

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by Bud on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @06:31PM (#30280295)
"Jokingly"?

The current issue aside, racists and xenophobes basically always attempt to evade responsibility by claiming they were "only joking". Such claims should be tossed in the trash bin where they belong. First, it's not a joke, and it's not funny. Second, they're lying...they didn't intend it as a "joke" and don't really even understand what a "joke" actually is, for the most part. And third, it's not relevant whether it was a joke or not.

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by philliphaydon on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @07:24PM (#30280819)
The west got played by China state run media. They were still calling it the Wuhan virus while actively calling anyone else who did so racist. They called anyone who closed their borders racist while blocking domestic travel but still flying truckloads if people out of Wuhan on international flights.

The west sucked this up and any mention of china in any capacity got you called racist.

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by ejb999 on Thursday February 10, 2022 @11:46AM (#30288836)
not a surprise - most of the supposed 'outrage' found on social media - and repeated by the mainstream media - is completely manufactured by foreign governments.
Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by Talanes on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @06:07PM (#30280013)
I don't watch mainstream news, but I got the exact same impression from people. Usually from the tinge of disgust in their voice every time they say the word "China."
Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by jessriedel on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @07:21PM (#30280803)
> people jumping from the fact that there is a lab in Wuhan to the conclusion that it must have come from there

The Wuhan Institute of Virology is China's premier virology research lab, its first biosafety level 4 lab, and one of the very few (or only one?) that was doing gain-of-function research. Wuhan has a population of 12M, which is just under 1% of China's population.

The fact that the virus emerged there, of all places in China, is non-conclusive but highly suggestive circumstantial evidence.

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by puffoflogic on Thursday February 10, 2022 @12:52PM (#30289939)
How is "There's a lab a few blocks from the virus epicenter which does GoF research on coronaviruses and there's only a small handful of such labs in the whole world. This probably isn't a coincidence." different from "a theory based on data".

So I would say, yes, you are looking at this wrong. Saying, "Well you were right but you couldn't possibly have known because you had insufficient information" is tantamount to believing "no one could possibly draw correct conclusions from less data than I could". Hopefully it's clear why that is wrong.

I'm not a big fan of lesswrong, but here's a pretty influential essay on the extreme version of the phenomenon of drawing conclusions from apparently insufficient data, and how it isn't just coincidence: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/MwQRucYo6BZZwjKE7/einstein-s....

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that everyone who believed this theory is more intelligent. That would be the most absurd thing of all! What I am saying however is that you can't distinguish between the people who believed it because they performed a (very!) minor Einsteinian feat and those who believe it just because they were told and like the theory. But you're better off not going around and calling them all racist or saying they all just guessed, because at least in some cases that isn't true, and would be anti-intellectual.

Most relevant paragraph from link:

"Of course, Einstein did turn out to be right. I try to avoid criticizing people when they are right. If they genuinely deserve criticism, I will not need to wait long for an occasion where they are wrong."

Re:Early ‘lab-grown’ Covid virus found in sample lends weigh... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday February 09, 2022 @09:59PM (#30281935)
>I remember at the very beginning people jumping from the fact that there is a lab in Wuhan

To be fair, at the time it was know that the Wuhan lab it was one of the leading two labs in the world working with bat and pangolin coronaviruses. They were genetically engineering and combining them and testing them in animal models. One of the primary investigations was modifying proteins so that they can infect hosts using human ACE2 pathway.