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Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by loeg on Monday February 07, 2022 @12:15PM (#30247811)
I’ve had a similar experience, albeit with lower TC numbers. The RSUs were backloaded, but there were big cash grants for years 1 and 2 that flattened it out somewhat.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Amazon values their stock grants as if it grows 15% every year. Obviously this is pretty optimistic and makes their offers not directly comparable to other companies that value their stock using current prices.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by KKKKkkkk1 on Monday February 07, 2022 @12:40PM (#30248208)
Another thing to keep in mind is that Amazon values their stock grants as if it grows 15% every year. Obviously this is pretty optimistic and makes their offers not directly comparable to other companies that value their stock using current prices.

They're easily comparable because current prices incorporate all publicly available information (and even some non-public). If you accept the 15% assumption, you're letting them hoodwink you.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by loeg on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:25PM (#30248895)
This isn't responsive to my comment. I said "not directly comparable," which is true, because the dollar figures stated for TC have different stock growth models. I agree that current prices are the best available estimate of future performance (i.e., flat growth model) and the optimistic stock valuation Amazon uses is misleading and deliberately so.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by bagels on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:04PM (#30248576)
When does the 15% come in to play? If your recruiter tells you $xxx in stock, they actually discount that and you get a grant for 15% less shares than current market price?
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by loeg on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:22PM (#30248849)
The signing bonus is some N shares of stock. The $xxx figures in their comp packages are inflated in years 2, 3, and 4 by optimistically valuing those shares.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by bagels on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:49PM (#30249222)
So, if the recruiter says $500k in RSU, and the stock stays flat for 4 years, the grant is actually only for $425k (or less with compounding)?

Or, are you saying, they justify small grants by telling you the stock will grow?

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by fhrow4484 on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:46PM (#30249971)
Let's say you're applying for a position where usual FAANG TC is 300k.

Then Amazon recruiter wants to "match" that, so 300 * 4=1200k over 4 years.

Base pay is maxed at 160 (until today's announcement), so 1200k-(160 * 4) = 560k to come up with with stocks and cash bonus.

Let's say Amazon 30 day moving average share price during negotiation is $1200 a share

So now recruiter must make math such that:

- TC stays relatively flat. On year 3 & 4 you get 40% of award, but only 5% year 1 and 15% year. (so a cash bonus to offset year 1 is ~35% of grant amount, and cash bonus offset year 2 is ~25% of grant amount)

- TC assuming 15% growth of stock

So, they'll offer you 220 units:

Year 1:

with only 5% * 220 * 1200=$13k from RSU, you need (300-160-13)=127k cash bonus , now your TC year 1 is 300k.

Year 2:

15% * 220 * 1200 * 1.15=46k from RSU So cash bonus of 94k.

Year 3:

40% * 220 * 1200 * 1.15^2=140k RSU that's 300k of TC

Year 4:

40% * 220 * 1200 * 1.15^3=160k RSU That's even more, 320k TC \o/

So all the math here is done using fictional share price that grew 1.15^n for each year. But in concrete, your offer says 220 units. If Amazon grew much more than 15% a year, on year 3 you're still making 40% * 220 units, no matter what the share price is.

But the final offer is:

160k / year base, 220 units over 4 year with 5%/15%/40%/40% vesting, and 127k cash bonus year 1 + 94k cash bonus year 2.

Amazon is one of rare FAANG where the RSU offer is given in share count in offer itself, not in $.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by loeg on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:53PM (#30250073)
I believe you're agreeing with GP; this is just a more fleshed out concrete example.

From your example, they offer you 220 units, valued at 13+46+140+160 = $359k.

However, if the stock stays perfectly flat, the actual value is $264k (220 * 1200).

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by fhrow4484 on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:12PM (#30250314)
Ah you're right, removing the "No, no, no" at top of my comment!
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by bagels on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @01:47AM (#30255597)
Thanks for the example.

I went back to look at the AWS offer I turned down. There was no mention of a 15% assumption anywhere, but it did spell out total RSU, base salary, and first two year bonuses, which ends up making year 1 about 8% more than year 4 for the same stock price.

This seems at odds with what you've presented.

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by banana-19 on Monday February 07, 2022 @11:19PM (#30254863)
In my case they built in a back loaded effective salary increase rather than being perfectly flat. Cost of living perhaps? E.g. your example becomes TC (285, 292, 305, 318) or something similar.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by loeg on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:48PM (#30250001)
> So, if the recruiter says $500k in RSU, and the stock stays flat for 4 years, the grant is actually only for $425k (or less with compounding)?

Yes, exactly (less with compounding, about $370k -- see sibling thread).

Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by coredog64 on Monday February 07, 2022 @02:17PM (#30249607)
Allegedly, if it doesn’t hit the 15% per year, you’ll get a top up refresh for the difference. Except you’re now stuck waiting another year for that to vest.
Re:Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k by vamega on Monday February 07, 2022 @08:03PM (#30253748)
You don't need to wait according to the changes announced today.

Of course you only get that number if your new target compensation is in line with that number.

So other companies have locked you in to your performance at interview time, while Amazon can give you a 15% paycut each year if your performance isn't high enough to at your offer level.