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Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by dmitriid on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @09:24AM (#30162773)
> You can back that up with combustion turbines.

So, back that up with burning natural gas.

> so backing up the entire grid this way is cheap (in capital cost) compared to the capital cost of a nuclear-powered grid.

> To cut down on that fuel cost, you can also add some batteries to reduce the fraction of time the turbines are required to operate.

So, the "cheap" is in reality:

- many gas powered energy plants (that are not there, and need to be built)

- plus many batteries (that are not there, and need to be built)

- plus cheap natural gas to burn

So much for "green energy already has the capacity to replace something"

Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by pfdietz on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @09:27AM (#30162823)
> So, back that up with burning natural gas.

You didn't read my whole comment there. One could use green hydrogen.

Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by dmitriid on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @09:30AM (#30162861)
> One could use green hydrogen.

Ah yes. It's a thing that

- can be cheaply produced at scale

- can be easily transported to large distances

- infrastructure can be easily and quickly converted to using it

Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by pfdietz on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @09:38AM (#30162982)
Yes, all of those are likely going to be true. Are they true at this instant? Maybe not, but a nuclear plant we start building today also won't be available at this instant.

Note that the application of green hydrogen I'm talking about here, grid backup, does not require replacing existing natural gas use with hydrogen. Nor does it require long distance hydrogen pipelines.

Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by dmitriid on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @12:05PM (#30165600)
> Are they true at this instant? Maybe not, but

There's no "but". The situation right now is that starry-eyed proponents of renewal energy sources claim that they have already surpassed nuclear etc. When in reality they can't cover the basics. And the answer to that? "Oh, yeah, sometime in the future there may be something to complement this".

> Note that the application of green hydrogen I'm talking about here, grid backup, does not require replacing existing natural gas use with hydrogen. Nor does it require long distance hydrogen pipelines.

Ah yes. Because green hydrogen just magically appeares every time you need it when you say "green hydrogen" three times

Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by bryanlarsen on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @10:51AM (#30164107)
I assume you're being sarcastic. Hydrogen can escape through solid metal, making it brittle in the process. It's cheap to produce from natural gas, but that's not green hydrogen. Green hydrogen is a lot more expensive. It's also very voluminous unless liquified which requires a ton of energy and refrigeration to maintain.
Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by dmitriid on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @12:06PM (#30165609)
> I assume you're being sarcastic.

I am being extremely sarcastic, that's true :) For all the reasons you listed :)

Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by StillBored on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @10:41AM (#30163971)
You probably know, but "cheap hydrogen" is produced from natural gas... lol.
Re:Europe Is Losing Nuclear Power Just When It Needs Energy by pfdietz on Tuesday February 01, 2022 @11:14AM (#30164513)
At present, with no CO2 fee. But this will not last.