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Re:My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmw... by JoeAltmaier on Monday January 31, 2022 @09:33AM (#30148282)
None of those 'good' are very good, or good at all. The buttons on the front are a few cents. On a $1000 appliance, that benefits only the manufacturer (if even them).

Being able to ship buggy software, again a benefit to the manufacturer.

More complex controls for more complex cycles etc? Questionable if this kind of fiddling on e.g. a dishwasher is of any use.

Collecting data - because we want to spend Saturday in a spreadsheet, going over our dishwasher telemetry? Oh! Maybe you mean, also only of use to the manufacturer. Not my problem; not a reason to make my device more complicated for me.

Re:My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmw... by da_chicken on Monday January 31, 2022 @03:44PM (#30154023)
"It doesn't help me personally immediately right now," is certainly a take you could have, sure.

Don't get me wrong. I'm extremely skeptical about IoT. I'm an experienced sysadmin, and that means I hate technology. There is a massive legislative need to protect the public from the damage these devices could do to customer rights, and the legislatures we've had for almost as long as I can remember are about as interested in filling that need as they were interested in protecting the worker and the right to unionize in the 19th century. Which is to say, it's more likely that the President will send the Army in to crack skulls than they'd pass a bill to do something right.

But the Digital Revolution doesn't just mean FAANG. It also means the Third Industrial Revolution. That's been going on for 35+ years. It's not new, and it's not going away. IoT will happen because it's simply too good for manufacturing not to do it even if they can't monetize their customers' data. IoT can provide real improvements just like networking computers has. There are unknown gains in efficiency, productivity, and quality of life to be gained here. The Information Age isn't NFTs and tracking cookies all the way down.

> More complex controls for more complex cycles etc? Questionable if this kind of fiddling on e.g. a dishwasher is of any use.

It's just an example, man. I'm not a dishwasher engineer. I don't know what they need to do, let alone to what they are capable of or what they could be used for but aren't because of the current structure.

It's not just about dishwashers either. All modern appliances are digital. What can you make any appliance in your home do with continuous monitoring and re-programmability?

Re:My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmw... by JoeAltmaier on Monday January 31, 2022 @04:36PM (#30154812)
If IoT was done responsibly, then we'd be more willing to try. The example was wifi connecting something that gave no benefit, and introduced significant risk (having a bad actor inside your wifi network). It doesn't take a scientist.

IoT could be done so much better. First, give some benefit (E.g. give you a service call when something went wrong).

And Why not use a simple VPN to the host? Encrypt the link some other way? Hell, require a password?

I've programmed IoT device firmware for clients. I put in security - they want it removed. Because it makes installation harder for their staff. No profit in it.

I'd run from any IoT device today. Until we have some legislation or accountability or even UL rating for security, there will be no security at all.

Re:My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmw... by peteradio on Monday January 31, 2022 @11:34AM (#30149897)
One quibble:

> The buttons on the front are a few cents.

It's knowing where those buttons need to be that is potentially costly. Offloading that to an app lets you cover all bases of unknown UI desire. Of course its still a terrible argument because dishwashers don't need to also be a disco ball or whatever nonsense marketing there is to justify the obvious money grab.