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Re:Who Got It Right: Orwell or Huxley? by shadowgovt on Thursday January 27, 2022 @06:50PM (#30108755)
The failure mode for BNW is when the gravy train runs out and the authorities can no longer afford to keep the public pacified. The much older concept than Huxley's story that Huxley's story is drawing from is "bread and circuses."

That's one of the reason that mullification through the carrot works so well in the United States... It's a very wealthy nation with vast reserves of resources to draw upon to keep people happy.

Re:Who Got It Right: Orwell or Huxley? by lordnacho on Thursday January 27, 2022 @06:58PM (#30108834)
Sure, but part of how it keeps itself alive is it recruits all these mullified people to work for it, and throwing off some reward to them. This can sustain itself for a long while, as it seems to be doing.

Perhaps the thing that happens is people see it's all BS and just decide they don't need all the toys, and once they don't need the toys, they don't need to work either. Plus they'll get more critical of the system.

Re:Who Got It Right: Orwell or Huxley? by bar_de on Thursday January 27, 2022 @07:15PM (#30108991)
The toys are one dimension of perceived and artificially created desires for the hoi polloi.

Please take into account that most of us humans are bound by various obligations. Be it the financial type, i.e. paying off your house for 30+ years or, even more captivating, creating substitutes for natural needs. Compare with the fact that most of us live isolated, especially in these times, without real world communication beyond chats, mail, telephone and, well, Hacker News. The lack of face to face opportunities to speak and do nonverbal communication is one of the causes for rising psychological diseases, drug abuse and antisocial behaviours in the last decade.

Our post Neolithic Revolution society is based on the concept of the ruler and the ruled. Why? Because having power is also a desire which may be the most destructive one for humanity in general.

We may be living on a punishment planet or simulation.

Re:Who Got It Right: Orwell or Huxley? by mrjangles on Thursday January 27, 2022 @07:06PM (#30108912)
Interesting that in a discussion of totalitarian regimes you would bring up the the "we are only wealthy because we steal wealth from the ground" thing. This whole idea was actually invented by Lenin in the 1920s to justify his totalitarian regime. There is no connection between it and reality, it was just propaganda to explain why Capitalism was still working and had not collapsed like Marx had predicted.

"Resources" exist in people's minds, not in the ground. Rocks and toxic sludge have no intrinsic value.

Re:Who Got It Right: Orwell or Huxley? by shadowgovt on Thursday January 27, 2022 @09:27PM (#30110035)
I think you'll need to clarify your meaning... I didn't mention the ground. I mostly mean that the United States has multiple industries dedicated to figuring out what makes people happy (or at least keeps their joy buttons pushed) and arranges the whole chain of operations to push them and to convince people to do work to make sure they get pushed.

That wealth takes the form of things in the ground, but also influence and the capacity to satisfy the desires of other countries and the people in them. Some of that is powered by processes that use raw materials that are non-renewable and dragged from the ground, but in the United States a lot of it is based on a hugely robust import export economy... Most of the things that push the joy buttons come from China.

Re:Who Got It Right: Orwell or Huxley? by mrjangles on Saturday January 29, 2022 @10:16PM (#30133542)
Oh sorry I miss understood what you meant by "resources"