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Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by nsajko on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:02PM (#30095214)
> should have never pushed his high res music stuff which sure doesn't stand up to double blind testing.

Not necessarily, e.g., AAC is pretty bad: https://forum.shotcut.org/t/crackling-distorted-audio-in-exp...

Apart from that, you're being severely shortsighted if you think playback is the only thing to do with an audio track.

Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by robbrown451 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:01PM (#30095677)
> you're being severely shortsighted

Do you mean the royal you, or me specifically?

I think mastering is far more important. And I agree other audio formats aren't all great.

But uncompressed CD quality audio is perfectly fine, in terms of resolution, humans can't detect beyond that. Neil's Pono stuff was a waste.... it was MASSIVE datawise for no good reason.

Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by hunter2_ on Thursday January 27, 2022 @12:27AM (#30096580)
Keep in mind there are 2 axes.

In the time domain, you're absolutely right, Nyquist–Shannon proves that we don't benefit from sampling higher than twice the upper bound of human hearing. Rates like 96kHz or 192kHz are useless for quality (although in specific live situations, they have utility in that the latency would be half or quarter that of typical rates, for a given buffer size in samples).

In the amplitude domain, CD quality (16 bits/sample) is pretty damn great for typical mastered audio (~96dB undithered, ~120dB dithered) but if the audio is unusually dynamic (i.e., loudness is not maximized) like with a symphony orchestra, you might actually turn up your sound system to the point where quantization noise becomes evident in the quietest parts, at which point you absolutely would benefit from more bits per sample (say, 24, yielding ~144dB of range undithered).

So in practice, you're right, CDs are fine; but "humans can't detect beyond that" only truly applies in the frequency domain. We can detect latency (not applicable to playback of recordings) and we can detect quantization noise when cranking up the volume knob.

Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by robbrown451 on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:05AM (#30096776)
Right, but of course on most recordings (including Neil's own), that seems very unlikely to be an issue.

More significantly, though, the Pono format took about 30 times the amount of data as lossless CD quality. While you are talking more like 1.5 times.

https://www.mouser.com/applications/high-resolution-audio/

Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by javajosh on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:28AM (#30096933)
Meta: I have no idea why someone downvoted you, and gave you an upvote because your explanation is accurate, and unusually well-written, IMHO. Although I'm curious what you mean about "detecting latency". You mean between two sources, for positioning? I'm not sure the relevance of that here.
Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by hunter2_ on Thursday January 27, 2022 @07:23PM (#30109056)
Thanks. I love the stuff!

> You mean between two sources, for positioning? I'm not sure the relevance of that here.

It's only really meaningful in scenarios like a recording studio where the performer is listening to themselves live, in headphones, if the signal undergoing A/D and D/A conversion with some processing in between. It could mean 2ms instead of 8ms, which can be the difference between distracting and not. Not relevant here (I admitted "not applicable") but just an example of where some utility does exist, but the utility is definitely not audible frequency response.

Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by Thorrez on Thursday January 27, 2022 @01:32AM (#30096957)
>latency would be half or quarter that of typical rates, for a given buffer size in samples

Would reducing the buffer size be another way to solve this?

Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by hunter2_ on Thursday January 27, 2022 @07:26PM (#30109085)
Yes, but buffer of some particular (possibly noticable) size is a necessary evil to avoid underrun glitches.
Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by Thorrez on Friday January 28, 2022 @12:49AM (#30111072)
Is it the the size of the buffer in samples, or in milliseconds that matters?
Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by hunter2_ on Sunday January 30, 2022 @07:22PM (#30142835)
In my experience, samples, although I don't know exactly why. But it's why you can get lower latency glitch-free audio with higher sample rates.
Re:Spotify is removing Neil Young’s music after falling out ... by herbstein on Thursday January 27, 2022 @08:29AM (#30100285)
Yeah, FFMPEG famously had a troubled AAC encoder for a long time. It's a bit better since FFMPEG 5.0 was released recently. There is a huge difference between AAC as a codec and the quality of file FFMPEG can generate for it.