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Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by ct0 on Thursday January 20, 2022 @08:50AM (#30008840)
Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.
Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by NikolaeVarius on Thursday January 20, 2022 @08:53AM (#30008873)
Yes, Pilots are responsible for the plane. Even if the autopilot messes up, there is a reason there are multiple pilots in the cockpit, they are supposed to take control.
Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by daniel-thompson on Thursday January 20, 2022 @08:55AM (#30008890)
Yes. The pilot in command is ultimately responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft. See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html... for more information.

Having said that, aircraft pilots are very highly trained relative to automobile drivers and must pass periodic medical and proficiency exams to maintain their flight status. Whereas anyone (loosely speaking) can buy a Tesla and just start driving it.

Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by imglorp on Thursday January 20, 2022 @09:14AM (#30009152)
U.S. CFR Title 14, Part 1, Section 1.1 defines the duties of Pilot in Command, legal term: [...] Has the final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight. [...]

That means PIC can delegate flying to their mom if they like but they are responsible. If they delegate to hardware and it misbehaves, they are still responsible.

Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by smoyer on Thursday January 20, 2022 @09:03AM (#30009011)
In the U.S., the FAA provides quite a few regulations that specifically forbid the use of autopilot in certain circumstances (e.g. "Autopilot - Minimum Altitudes for Use [0]). More over, the FAA recognizes that extensive use of autopilot functions can degrade a pilot's skills and has issued a SAFO [1] with guidance for aircraft operations and pilot training.

[0]https://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part135-93-FAR.shtml [1] https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_op...

Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by stefan_ on Thursday January 20, 2022 @10:14AM (#30009867)
Well the pilots are dead in a lot of incidents so it's kinda moot? Airlines are sued all the time over crashes and right now Boeing is being sued over crashes from MCAS, even though there is a magic combination the pilots could have pressed to override it.

Generally, in any kind of crash investigation the pilots are one of the least important things to look at - telling people to do X or Y to mitigate some risk has a terrible track record.

Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by daniel-thompson on Thursday January 20, 2022 @10:48AM (#30010347)
> Well the pilots are dead in a lot of incidents so it's kinda moot?

It's not moot because most occurrences don't result in death. Occurrences are investigated both to establish fault (which can and does sometimes result in pilots losing their flight status and/or jobs), and from a safety perspective to try to prevent or minimize future occurrences.

> Generally, in any kind of crash investigation the pilots are one of the least important things to look at

This is not true. Most accidents and incidents are caused at least in part by pilot error.

- https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/aviation-accident/why-planes-...

- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12136068_Factors_as...

- https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_...

> telling people to do X or Y to mitigate some risk has a terrible track record.

This is not true at all, at least when it comes to aircraft pilots. As anyone who's been to flight school knows, about 90% of the curriculum could reasonably be described as "telling the pilot to do X or Y to mitigate risk". And it works! There are millions of flights every year, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of them are safe (because pilots actively & successfully mitigate risk).

Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by ta988 on Thursday January 20, 2022 @09:07AM (#30009061)
Yes, but autopilot in plane is much much different. It is not about detecting and avoiding other planes, it is about following a route and recovering from various flight situations. You don't have an autopilot for when they are on the ground.
Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by hwers on Thursday January 20, 2022 @08:54AM (#30008882)
It's probably evaluated on a case-by-case basis depending on how much the investigation determines it was caused by technical issues and pilot negligence.
Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by WA on Thursday January 20, 2022 @08:56AM (#30008911)
Do autopilots in planes "fly themselves no human input at all"? Because that's what Teslas are doing since 2016, according to Elon Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/789019145853513729
Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by neurobashing on Thursday January 20, 2022 @09:03AM (#30009018)
The very short story is, one member of the crew maintains control of the aircraft (hands on yoke and throttles, maintains general situational awareness) while the other enters the data into the autopilot (set altitude to X, bearing Y, at speed Z). The aircraft then executes the maneuver(s) entered, while under supervision of a human.
Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by chopin on Thursday January 20, 2022 @08:53AM (#30008876)
I would think generally yes. It's the Pilot's job to supervise the autopilot.
Re:A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver gui... by nradov on Thursday January 20, 2022 @08:52AM (#30008857)
Yes