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Re:Comcast Shot Themselves in the Foot with MTA-STS by ocdtrekkie on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @07:55PM (#30002791)
I think you are missing my core point: That the web browser, as my agent, should do what I tell it. Which means any browser that refuses to load a site because of a cert issue because of HSTS, that browser has been hijacked by the server operator.

For any other certificate issue, my browser will allow me to bypass it if I know what I am doing. But because HSTS has hijacked the browser, it will no longer act in my stead unless I fork the browser and recompile it. I consider HSTS to be a malicious specification in this respect.

Re:Comcast Shot Themselves in the Foot with MTA-STS by tptacek on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:11PM (#30003479)
Your web browser should do what you tell it to, but it doesn't follow that people who provide apps are obligated to allow you to speak HTTP to them. I don't know what a "malicious specification" is, but your logic about how to lock apps into HTTPS (by simply not listening on 80/tcp) doesn't hold, at all.
Re:Comcast Shot Themselves in the Foot with MTA-STS by tedunangst on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:01PM (#30003928)
That's not the request being made. What people want is for the button that says "this expired cert is fine, whatever" to still be available for hsts https sites.
Re:Comcast Shot Themselves in the Foot with MTA-STS by tptacek on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @11:28PM (#30004636)
I guess I don't understand what that has to do with HSTS, which was not designed for that button.
Re:Comcast Shot Themselves in the Foot with MTA-STS by ocdtrekkie on Thursday January 20, 2022 @12:02AM (#30004882)
Basically, on any ordinary HTTPS site, every browser can allow you to proceed despite a certificate error. Such as knowing the certificate is expired or revoked or not from a known CA or something.

HSTS by specification prohibits browsers from offering that option. So I can know a server is serving valid, authentic traffic via HTTPS, be aware of why the certificate has an issue, and HSTS requires that my browser prohibit me from connecting to the server.

Re:Comcast Shot Themselves in the Foot with MTA-STS by tedunangst on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @11:50PM (#30004810)
When an HSTS locked site has an expired cert, the browser takes away the "it's okay" button.
Re:Comcast Shot Themselves in the Foot with MTA-STS by tptacek on Thursday January 20, 2022 @01:11AM (#30005384)
No, I get that. I get how you can reasonably argue about that feature. I don't get how you can argue that feature suggests we shouldn't stop SSL stripping at all.