I see little historical precedent or common understanding for the HN definition of 'email I'd rather not have in my inbox' equating to 'spam'.

> I see little historical precedent or common understanding for the HN definition of 'email I'd rather not have in my inbox' equating to 'spam'.

Man, oh, man, you're funny. Even more so as it is apparently unintentional and you're being totally serious.

To the rest of the world, i.e. everyone who isn't a spammer, 'email I'd rather not have in my inbox' is and has always been the exact definition of 'spam'.

HTH!

This is the subject line of an email in my inbox right now. Sure you could say the sender allows me to opt out but I shouldn't have to opt out. This isn't legally spam but I want to know what you would call this unsolicited, non-transactional commercial email.

» Your Prime Membership: {{first name}} {{last name}}, discover the latest in deals and entertainment included with Prime

>I want to know what you would call this unsolicited, non-transactional commercial email.

Commercial email, differentiated from spam in that you have a commercial relationship with Amazon that you initiated and agreed to (i.e. solicited), and as such, they are allowed to market to you until such time as you ask them to stop.

I can see my opinion on this matter isn't a common one on HN.

> I can see my opinion on this matter isn't a common one on HN.

Your opinion isn’t common among anyone other than marketers trying to justify sending spam.

..And people who spend a lot of time fighting actual spam, as in, actual unsolicited junk email, who have to deal with false positives from uninformed users who think the 'report spam' button is the appropriate response to them getting an Amazon email they don't like.

I'm disappointed to see that attitude here.

In practice, there is little difference between "junk email" which I assume you mean scams/phishing/pills/viagra/etc adverts and that Amazon email. Both take space in your inbox, may send you a notification and require time and brain power to deal with. Whether the latter example may comply with some jurisdiction's definition of "spam" is irrelevant.

The "mark as spam" button gives users the ability to keep their inbox clean and you shouldn't be faulting them for using it.

Not to mention, even if we agree for a minute that the report spam button should only be used for emails that conform to the legal definition of spam, which law should we be following? The US' definition of spam is much more liberal than the EU GDPR's one for example.

> actual spam, as in, actual unsolicited junk email

solicit, v 1. To ask from with earnestness

unsolicited, adj 1. not asked for

Your justifications hinge entirely on a very unusual and rather tortured definition of “solicit”.

I'm disappointed to see spamming apologia here.

Did I sign up for a mailing list?

Yes - not spam

No - spam.

Creating an account with a company is not signing up for mailing lists unless there's a choice presented. Yeah, you can hide consent in the ToS that nobody reads, but that's not asking for permission.

It is the exact correct button for that kind of shit, and it sounds like you need to reevaluate what it is you're trying to optimize for.

> false positives

It's not a false positive. The filter needs to be tuned to what your users think is spam, that is what spam filters are for. You are not the gatekeeper of what other people are allowed to think is spam.

Ok, let's use "spam email" for what you consider spam and add a new category for unsolicited trash from known senders, e.g. "trash email".

> you have a commercial relationship with Amazon that you initiated and agreed to (i.e. solicited), and as such, they are allowed to market to you

That's not what that word means. I didn't solicit marketing emails; the only emails I asked for were the bare minimum to open an account and anything needed for orders that I initiated.

you do know, another name for spam is unsolicited commercial email (UCE), right? That is exactly what that crap is, since a) the person didn't want it (unsolicited), b) its relating to commerce, and c) its an email.