News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by maccard on Saturday January 15, 2022 @12:15PM (#29948148)
> which was obviously a poor experience and increased friction even in cases where a refund was desired by both the developer and user.

I've had much more luck with apple than I have with "developers". NYT is the textbook example that comes up here. You can sign up in one click but cancelling still requires phoning them up.

It's also analogous to a physical store; I don't ask kellogs for a refund if my cereal doesn't work, I ask the grocery store.

Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by hyperman1 on Saturday January 15, 2022 @12:43PM (#29948421)
Note this is in the EU, not the USA, so consumer protection is a lot higher.

If the NYT tried this here, I'd just revoke access from my bank account, assuming they even had any. There is probably also a law specifying how to unsubscribe, but I can't tell how it works in the Netherlands.

UPDATE: Thinking this through, it allows us to put a monetary value on consumer protection. Much of what the apple 30% tax gives you as a consumer is built into law. So assuming a more reasonable cost of say 5%, small time devs get a loss of 25% of income because of the state of payments and consumer protection in the USA. You can haggle over percentages, but there is a cost.

Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by maccard on Saturday January 15, 2022 @12:47PM (#29948464)
NYT offers a subscription that can be purchased outside the US (I'm a subscriber to NYT cooking living in the UK), and to the best of my understanding you're still required to call even outside the US.
Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by mr_aks on Saturday January 15, 2022 @01:35PM (#29948941)
I was able to cancel NYT subscription from the EU without calling them.
Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by hnaccount_rng on Saturday January 15, 2022 @01:31PM (#29948901)
At least from Germany. And at least last year I could just cancel online
Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by ralfd on Saturday January 15, 2022 @07:07PM (#29951821)
> small time devs get a loss of 25% of income

Nitpicking: Apple takes 15% from small time devs (less than a million $)

Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by hfsh on Sunday January 16, 2022 @10:13AM (#29956583)
> There is probably also a law specifying how to unsubscribe, but I can't tell how it works in the Netherlands.

The law here in the Netherlands is that you must be able to unsubscribe by the same method you subscribed in the first place.

Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by saagarjha on Saturday January 15, 2022 @01:18PM (#29948774)
Right, but ideally it would be that Apple would step in for cases where the developer is not cooperating. For cases where the developer wants to give you your money back, they still have to refer you to Apple so that they can make their own decision on whether you’re owed a refund, which is kind of stupid.
Re:Apple complies with Dutch ruling, lets dating apps use ot... by maccard on Saturday January 15, 2022 @02:08PM (#29949216)
So does apple have to foot the bill for this service independently, or do we charge the developers some percentage of their revenue to provide this service?

Snark aside, I do think you're going to require some sort of hold/guarantee from the developers to apple if you want to force that sort of relationship.