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Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by justaj on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @07:02AM (#29905209)
With cameras and motion sensors you more or less know how they'll be used and as a user you can choose to disable them (or at the very least block them if you can't disable them).

With this technology, it will be integrated into your router (and clients?), so turning those off will mean to turn off WiFi altogether. Added to that, I'll bet that most people wouldn't even begin to imagine that WiFi could be used for sensing people, and they'll continue using WiFi without being aware for the grave privacy implications.

Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by Ginden on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @07:52AM (#29905668)
> With this technology, it will be integrated into your router (and clients?), so turning those off will mean to turn off WiFi altogether.

It's rather unreasonable to think that you won't be able to turn off band on router. Especially given fact that 60Ghz is heavily shielded by _doors_, so any usable router would require fallback 2.4/5/6 Ghz connectivity.

Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by transpute on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @08:42AM (#29906158)
802.11bf Wi-Fi 7 Sensing works with all frequencies, 2.4 and up.

Even if Neighbor 2 turns off their router, Neighbor 1 could passively use the radio waves from Neighbor 3's router to surveil reflections from Neighbor 2, including keyboard typing, heartrate/breathing, location and physical activity.

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27123493

Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by judge2020 on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @10:07AM (#29907295)
The problem with this neighbor-spying fear is that "complex math using data from radio waves to sense stuff" is already possible and readily available by anyone willing to study and put in the world of building it, wifi 7 isn't suddenly enabling that part of rf analysis or mathematics.
Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by pizza on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @11:56AM (#29909377)
Removing the PhD-level knowledge requirement from this particular mode of being an asshole doesn't sound like much of an improvement
Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by EricE on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @02:29PM (#29911677)
yes, but the real threat with this is not that it makes something possible that is already possible, but it makes the barrier to use that tech a LOT lower.

Wrapping my house in tin foil is sounding a lot less conspiracy theorist now! Actually my house is going to be stuccoed - I wonder if they are using a metal mesh that I can ground. Hmm...

Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by jsmcgd on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @11:20AM (#29908652)
> wifi 7 isn't suddenly enabling that part of rf analysis or mathematics

It makes it suddenly ubiquitous when all new WiFi devices use the new standard.

Re:The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communica... by refulgentis on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @07:47AM (#29905606)
There's no reason to assume any of that.