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Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by Sharlin on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:28AM (#29823888)
That's very unfair. Some people may dislike Java and its ecosystem (and even the JVM platform), but it is not where it is now by accident.
Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by LanceH on Thursday January 06, 2022 @10:25AM (#29824691)
But it isn't necessarily there strictly on the merits of the language. Sun put a billion dollars of marketing into it. Managers, directors and others with expectation of ever programming were taking Java courses because it was going to change everything.

It was going to run on every device in my kitchen, and they were all going to talk to each other. Instead the first niche it found was J2EE, and that "write once, run anywhere" was a bit comical, because who swaps out the OS on their server?

It was apparently good enough to be the choice for Android and similar, but that was much later.

It's really difficult to describe how people -- especially non programmers -- bought into the hype surrounding Java.

I've since seen a bit of that hype around some things, but never to that extent: XML, SPA, a strange obsession with tiled widgets.

Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by pbourke on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:25PM (#29826517)
> It was going to run on every device in my kitchen, and they were all going to talk to each other. Instead the first niche it found was J2EE

The first niche was applets. A managed language with a batteries-included library, familiar syntax and cross-platform GUI story was a new thing at the time.

Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by KptMarchewa on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:03PM (#29828231)
3 billion devices run log4shell.
Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by agumonkey on Thursday January 06, 2022 @09:55AM (#29824248)
I honestly wonder what made java so prevalent server side. JVM jit speed and memory safety are good arguments but the rest was not so shiny. Remember the J2EE era, it was horrible and the reason java got there seems, IMO, to be heavy marketing.

ps: I forgot, the JVM spec was a good thing, it made a lot of things sound for people, so easier deployments and less inconsistencies.

Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by Jetrel on Thursday January 06, 2022 @11:17AM (#29825467)
Not exactly a java fan here, but java targeted the enormous block of people writing in C/C++ for their enterprise servers, and gave them "machine-independence". Being able to upgrade your server, and not having to rewrite your app, was huge. The competition wasn't PHP, at the time; it was C/C++.

It's interesting in today's era of Rust, that people think of Java as failing to replace C++; in practice, it was only 90% successful, and managed to replace the vast majority of cases where people did use it.

About the only things that didn't get replaced were (some) desktop gui apps, and apps that were so tiny that they weren't worth the launch of the JVM.

Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by zmmmmm on Thursday January 06, 2022 @05:10PM (#29831056)
Also - you have to remember that in the late 90's / early 2000's, Windows was at peak dominance, nearly 100% of developers at work were stuck with a Windows desktop to develop on. At the same time nearly all servers were linux or maybe solaris. So how are you going to develop on Windows and deploy on Unix? C++ was a nightmare, scripting languages were far from ready ... Java was really transformational in how it gave a complete, totally portable standard library in a mature language framework. All these things are take for granted today.
Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by agumonkey on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:02PM (#29826167)
Yeah I remember steele saying they wanted to make c++ move toward lisp.

But you got me curious.. what kind of backend code was written in c++ ? did people write server side logic in it ? I remember seeing some Oracle C code but it felt like a strange thing and not a c/c++ land. But to be honest that's not my world.

Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by pbourke on Thursday January 06, 2022 @12:31PM (#29826620)
C++ was quite common back in the day. Amazon began as a C++ monolith (obidos).
Re:“I am literally losing sleep” over Java (1996) by KptMarchewa on Thursday January 06, 2022 @02:05PM (#29828260)
I honestly feel there was no competition in the early 00s besides PHP, and that choice came with tons of other issues, especially at that time.