News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by thathndude on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:21PM (#29770793)
I have a son who is just about 10 years old, and he’s getting to the age where he’s beginning to realize how irrational our world is.

We recently had a conversation discussing the fact that we could eradicate hunger and the need for clean water globally, but for a whole host of reasons we have not yet done it.

He continues to probe “why“ and all I can say is, essentially, because people are greedy and unmotivated generally, and unwilling to sacrifice a modicum for others (not to mention corruption and other collective action problems).

I don’t think there is an answer.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by geertj on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:01PM (#29771465)
> We recently had a conversation discussing the fact that we could eradicate hunger and the need for clean water globally, but for a whole host of reasons we have not yet done it.

It depends at what level you mean ‘could.’ Yes, agro-technically we can produce enough food to feed everyone. The issue with world hunger is mostly due to non democratic governments preferring power over feeding their people. At that level, the ‘could’ becomes difficult and maybe impossible.

I think the real answer is that human nature has a dark side that, unless kept in balance by a culture of accountability, will cause harm to others.

A related realization is that, I think, cultures of accountability can be traced back to just luck and a small number of enlightened people that set things up in the past at the right time in the right place. So let’s not pretend things will always get better automatically, and, for those who enjoy freedom under a democratic government, let’s make an effort to cherish and invest in our culture, starting with educating our kids how special this really is.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by krainboltgreene on Sunday January 02, 2022 @07:38PM (#29775884)
You literally just described their own comment back to them.
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by HKH2 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @08:46PM (#29776385)
No, the first post implies that the problem is that [the West] is too greedy, and the second post implies that even if [the West] were generous by any measure, it still wouldn't fix the problem.
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by imtringued on Sunday January 02, 2022 @05:46PM (#29774903)
Just think about it. The lay man definition of rent seeking is making a profit without putting any effort (i.e. letting someone else carry the burden of earning the profit). Who doesn't want to earn a profit from doing absolutely nothing?

All you need to do is tax the rent seeking and it goes away. The reason why that hasn't been done is that those who would be impacted have good connections with elected politicians. The most humble example is a homeowner who is involved in local politics at the expense of the renter.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by frutiger on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:59PM (#29771434)
> and unwilling to sacrifice a modicum for others

I agree with your sentiment but I have to disagree with that phrase. The vast majority* of people of people pay quite a lot of money in taxes, which ostensibly** only exist to help others.

(*) I know the billionaires have their wealth as unrealized gains; I chose my words carefully

(**) I know we all disagree on how that revenue should be spent, but the purpose of taxation is all the same

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by imtringued on Sunday January 02, 2022 @05:59PM (#29775038)
>(*) I know we all disagree on how that revenue should be spent, but the purpose of taxation is all the same

The purpose of income tax is to avoid taxing land. You're basically paying taxes twice. Once to the government and again to the owner of the land who is making a profit off the services your government has provided via income taxes.

Also, almost all welfare systems are designed to make poverty sustainable, which is why simply getting rid of them solves nothing, they are just a symptom of an unequal society that wants to keep it that way. Getting people back to work is a more effective way to reduce welfare than cutting welfare spending.

E.g. farmers get paid by welfare recipients, cutting welfare may end up costing farmers a job that is absolutely necessary to society so farm subsidies are increased to maintain food security. If people get a job they still need to eat, so getting rid of the farmer and all the other people that are getting paid via the welfare recipient is nonsense.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by oneoff786 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:04PM (#29771515)
People pay taxes to avoid going to jail. Your tax return has an option to pay more for no reason. Guess how many people choose that option.
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by ohgodplsno on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:23PM (#29771794)
> I know the billionaires have their wealth as unrealized gains; I chose my words carefully

That they use as collateral to get loans from banks that actually have that money. "Billionaires don't actually have that money" is peak bootlicker logic.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by landemva on Sunday January 02, 2022 @02:43PM (#29772855)
No, the banks don't actually have the money. Banks are regulated and licensed to print money based on undercollateralized loans.

A house mortgage with 20% down is designed to be undercollateralized.

When the regulators and debt rating agencies don't do their jobs, it is easily apparent those loans were not fully collateralized. Therefore, the loans created money out of thin air. The banks are licensed to print money.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by ohgodplsno on Monday January 03, 2022 @01:43AM (#29778047)
Big bootlicker energy here.

It doesn't matter if what your bank gives you isn't paper money. That's not the point. The point is, you go to the bank, you can buy absolutely anything you want with your loaned money, even if it's just a line in a database called fake_money_literally_just_printed.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by frutiger on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:29PM (#29771858)
That’s why I said “vast majority of people”.
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by oneoff786 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:02PM (#29771480)
If you give food to poor areas for free then their farmers go out of business, the area becomes more poor, and they become dependent on aid. Breaking systems always has consequences. It’s not easy.
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by esarbe on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:20PM (#29771741)
How about industrialized nations get rid of their agricultural subsidies?
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by landemva on Sunday January 02, 2022 @02:37PM (#29772765)
Yes, USA corn subsidies are obscene and often encourage over-use of fertilizers and pesticides. Governments should stop manipulating price signals.

If government was moderately okay at setting prices and production, there would not have been starvation of tens of millions under Mao's rule. If government manipulation of production worked, today North Korea would be the bread basket of the world.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by iggldiggl on Sunday January 02, 2022 @03:53PM (#29773746)
I absolutely can't say whether current subsidies are too high or too low or just at the right level for that purpose, but at least to a certain extent the subsidies and the resultant overproduction are intentional as a safeguard against harvest failures, because you really really don't want to end up with a famine as soon as you get an only even just marginally worse harvest.

It's the same issue we're now running into with renewable electricity production: You either need lots of storage, and for what you cannot store you need to significantly overbuild your production capacity.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by oneoff786 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:57PM (#29772234)
Then the price of food goes up, and farmers have a bad time?
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by esarbe on Sunday January 02, 2022 @08:41PM (#29776342)
Then the rich countries cannot dump their chronic surpluses on the international markets and kill the local markets of developing countries for small-scale farmers.
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by oneoff786 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @09:20PM (#29776593)
Oversimplified beyond the point of usefulness. The effects of reducing farmer subsidies are enormous and far more wide reaching than dumping implications in developing countries.

The original question was why can’t we just feed everyone.

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by chillacy on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:42PM (#29771144)
Adam smith wrote a short philosophy book about this back in the day about this very topic. (something like: what is worse: stubbing your toe, or a natural disaster somewhere remote which kills thousands but doesn’t affect you personally).

I wouldn’t say it’s “the answer” but it is “a candidate answer”

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by thathndude on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:44PM (#29771197)
Yeah. The classic formulation I’ve seen of that is “would you cut off your pinky to save 100 people’s lives in China”
Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by shagie on Sunday January 02, 2022 @08:48PM (#29776400)
I'm quite fond of the YouTube channel Kurzgesagt which has deep videos that are targeted at a "you don't need to be an expert in the subject to understand."

There's a video on this subject - Can YOU Fix Climate Change? https://youtu.be/yiw6_JakZFc

You may also like A Selfish Argument for Making the World a Better Place – Egoistic Altruism https://youtu.be/rvskMHn0sqQ

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by mistrial9 on Sunday January 02, 2022 @01:28PM (#29771856)
you are speaking in a fictional "we" .. the wealthiest economies are built on pure selfish action, and grew like ivy in the garden in the last 500 years of expansion. Meanwhile, plenty of other cultures teach their children to compete with others based on language, "tribal" affiliation, other reasons.. You are trying to explain half of a world-view, and your ten year old easily finds the dissonance in that.

source: a person raised in the fictional "we" whose neighbors were not

Re:Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021 by imtringued on Sunday January 02, 2022 @06:00PM (#29775047)
Singapore and Hongkong are not very selfish. They have public land ownership for example.