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Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by actually_a_dog on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @11:21PM (#29721817)
I've got one word for you: China.

The US can't just cut off China without serious second order effects rippling through the economy. Therefore, it won't happen. And, if you can't get China to cooperate, none of it matters. They're currently the largest emitter of greenhouse gasses, have publicly said they'll be increasing their emissions for some time, and have not committed to net zero before 2060.

Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by Stupulous on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @12:23AM (#29722181)
China's emissions per capita are half that of the US, and it seems very reasonable that they would see an increase in carbon emissions as the average standard of living goes up. The US is only aiming for carbon neutral by 2050, and we have less work to do and more money to do it with. I'm no fan of China, but I think we're on the same page regarding renewables.
Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by actually_a_dog on Wednesday December 29, 2021 @12:29AM (#29722217)
That's all well and good, but your real problem is that both of those pages fall well after the book is closed on being able to make a real difference. I also forgot to note that India has only committed to net zero emissions by 2070, and that's far too late to avoid serious issues.
Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by lambdadmitry on Thursday December 30, 2021 @07:14AM (#29736098)
Per capita emissions don't matter for the atmosphere, aggregate emissions do. Yes this makes big population a liability, but it is what it is.
Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by Stupulous on Friday December 31, 2021 @01:27AM (#29745556)
They matter if we're asking whether China is on the US' side on this.

China's people shouldn't be forced to live in worse conditions because they live in more populous nation. You could split China into two countries with US-level emissions, and we'd be in exactly the same place globally.

Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by lambdadmitry on Saturday January 01, 2022 @01:22PM (#29761053)
> China's people shouldn't be forced to live in worse conditions because they live in more populous nation

According to the logic of degrowth, they should be forced to live in conditions that allow for net zero total emissions of the country they live in. If anything, it should be easier for them because they're a unitary dictatorship, so can degrow by edict. I can't see how not focusing on China in that regard can make sense, they're emitting more currently, they are rapidly increasing their emissions (unlike the US), and they have a great potential to increase it much higher because they have lots more people. Therefore any degrowth strategy should be first and foremost applied to curb their emissions, yet somehow the conversation is always derailed into useless per-capita emissions that do nothing to the planet.

Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by josephcsible on Saturday January 01, 2022 @01:53PM (#29761360)
> You could split China into two countries with US-level emissions

Well first of all, two wouldn't suffice. It's at least three, and I think it might even be four. And with a bunch of mini-Chinas, there'd be more competition for where manufacturing happens, and it could drive emissions down the same way that breaking up a monopoly drives price down.

Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by Stupulous on Sunday January 02, 2022 @12:12AM (#29766040)
By Wikipedia's 2019 numbers (14 Gt China/6.6 Gt US) you'd need 2.12 mini-Chinas.
Re:Tech Won’t Save Us. Shrinking Consumption Will by josephcsible on Sunday January 02, 2022 @03:18PM (#29773319)
The article I was remembering was https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57018837 in which case the result of the division is 2.45. But in any case, since you can't have a fraction of a country in this context, you would indeed need 3 for each one to have lower emissions than the US.