When I lived in a "low COL town" that wasn't in the midwest (about 2 hours from a major city of any kind and about an hour in various directions from a couple small cities) people would say this all the time... "Sure I'm only making 60% of what I could be but my CoL is so low!!"[0]
But my rent was still over $600/mo + utilities for a 2-room apartment (each). There were some really bad options for sub-$300, but you were living in a sub-$300 apartment. You can make this choice anywhere.
Gas costed the same it costs everywhere else
Walmart prices were walmart prices.
Restaurants were typically cheap but that's because they weren't amazing - the population couldn't afford to sustain an high-end restaurant. There are cheap restaurants everywhere.
I felt like it was cheap compared to outliers like seattle and the bay area, but not cheap on its own. I'm interested in how this might be different from the midwest. What kinds of products or services stand out to you as significantly contributing towards a low CoL?
[0] With remote the bit about 60% is no longer as accurate, but it's what a lot of people said at the time, and some of them still make comparatively little and say they're fine because of the low CoL.
Median home values. My state: $152k. CA: $551k. WA: $393k. NY: $305k.
Gas absolutely does not cost the same as everywhere else. In my midwest state, the average today is $3.05/gal. In California, $4.65. WA: $3.85. Even in IL, which is "expensive midwest" for sure, its $3.37.
Electricity: my state, $0.135/kwh. CA: $0.226. NY: $0.196. There are some generally high COL states like WA which have pretty cheap electricity.
"There are cheap restaurants everywhere". Even McDonalds charges more in different states. Its not the same! My state, a Big Mac costs $4.10. CA: $5.11. WA: $4.67.
All those floors on quality of life for people at the bottom require higher prices.
A couple years ago, myself and two friends were living in a 6Br/2.5Ba house for a total of $1900/mo. So, $633 each, and while the house was a little cold in the winter and the neighborhood wasn't exactly the cultural center of the midwestern city, it was a short drive to somewhere more interesting, and we each had two bedrooms. And no, it wasn't a mansion; it just had a really strange layout, and a couple of the "bedrooms" legally weren't "bedrooms".
You can find it. But oftentimes kids coming right out of college come to big towns with this idealism of "i want to live in a high rise apartment, in the downtown center, go out with friends every weekend". Every time I have that conversation, I encourage them: do that for a year. You'll have the money. But year 2: think more critically about saving money, move further away from the "hip" areas. And still go out every weekend with your friends!
Is there credibility to the notion of knowing that a place is going to have an earthquake within the precision of one human’s lifetime, or even a few generations of human’s lifetimes?
Its a bad argument against moving there. But it is a good argument for moving somewhere else.
I'm reading this as you saying that where you currently are (the Midwest?) people your age perceive the gender ratio as poor, and think they'll have better luck with a better ratio in NYC. You feel like it doesn't matter whether you're in the Midwest or NYC, or whether the ratio is good or bad, being non-white is a larger factor than location or ratio.
Am I reading that right, or am I misinterpreting?
I’ve heard first hand people take jobs in NY instead of SF as they think they’ll have a better chance at finding a woman partner.
There are only more women overall in nyc because they include women past 35 - which is past the prime dating years.
This holds true in just about every major city in the USA. 5% more men are born overall. It’s only evened out by age 40 because men kill themselves at a much higher rate than women. (General mental health crisis going on for men that is shoved under the rug)
Back when OKCupid's blog had a bunch of interesting data and insights about dating, the conclusion was: if you are male, and you are NOT a top-tier chiseled-jaw white/black/Latin guy....your prospects in the US are slim-to-none. And that was before women had legions of OnlyFans simps at their fingertips.
- Cost of living. Its the cheapest place in the US to live.
- Gender ratio. This is something new grads should absolutely consider. The gender ratio even on midwest tech teams feels nation-leading, with many of the companies I've talked to (including my own) near 50-50. But even beyond tech; its far more equitable here. This is a theme I see all the time with west-coast tech; they talk about making change, implement tons of policies to try to it happen, but here, its already happened. We just don't talk about it. This is important for new grads even beyond their job; finding a partner here is so much easier & more fun.
- Pay & Job Security. Some companies are "old" and still stuck in their ways and won't match more high-tech salaries. You'll find that anywhere. Other companies have more progressive leadership, despite being a traditionally old business, and pay aggressively well. You'll also find that anywhere. You have to spend some time researching who is who, but: these companies have tons of money, desire to modernize, and the best part: very little sense of what being a "good engineer" means. Read into that what you will, but: you literally won't ever have a problem finding a job. I've gotten offers after literally just casually talking with someone for fifteen minutes in a company's engineering leadership at a tech meetup.
- Remote. Many west coast companies are now paying west coast salaries regardless of work location. Local companies are pushing for more work-from-home or hybrid.
- Novelty. Tech still feels nascent in many of these cities. Maybe not MSP/Chicago, but more of the second tier midwestern cities. The communities are small, three-person startups are still everywhere, and there's a startling amount of "old money" looking to invest. Most awesomely, there's much less bullshit; in general, you hear what some of these companies are working on and think "shit, that will sell".
- Weather. You get used to it. But you know what we don't get? Wildfires, hurricanes, and earthquakes. Tornadoes are common, but they generally don't strike major cities. I'd take the midwest environment over west coast any day; warm weather every day is fine, but imagine buying a house in an area that's years overdue for an earthquake that will level your city.