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Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by emodendroket on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @01:48AM (#29711169)
On this theory, is the computer also a hazardous device? Because you could type this into a search engine and the same thing could happen?
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by kube-system on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @02:01AM (#29711241)
I think curation, or the appearance thereof, makes a big difference.
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by emodendroket on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @11:14AM (#29715030)
Google presents excerpts from pages in an authoritative way all the time.
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by kube-system on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @06:22PM (#29719583)
That'a a great example. Google's "answer box"/"featured snippets" have received a great deal of criticism for this... for incorrect information that was in the search results anyway. The key difference is in presentation.
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by dcanelhas on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @03:27AM (#29711650)
The source for the information is a warning to parents about the challenge. Alexa only returned the challenge statement, without the context of it being potentially life threatening. A search would have been fine.
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by gruez on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @11:11AM (#29715012)
>A search would have been fine.

But what about a search that didn't return it, or returned it in a way that's not really obvious (ie. google's answer panels for questions)? Should we report google and/or the computer manufacturer to the CSPC?

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by foxfluff on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @11:57AM (#29715493)
I think there's a difference in how you present the information. So returning things in a way such that it is not obvious you're looking at mere search results should perhaps be viewed as something requiring a bit of responsibility (-> don't do it if you can't take responsibility), and dangerous/libelous/etc. information perhaps should be reported if it appears as the though the site returning it is providing editorialized content and not just aggregated search results.

On the other hand, the status quo is kinda funny: https://i.imgur.com/ux42v8p.png

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by gruez on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @12:29PM (#29715847)
> So returning things in a way such that it is not obvious you're looking at mere search results should perhaps be viewed as something requiring a bit of responsibility

That seems like a pointless distinction. Do you think kids even know what a search engine is? I'm sure some do, but are the ones who don't out of luck? I'll even say that a significant chunk of adults think that the content in google info boxes comes from google, rather than from the site itself.

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by foxfluff on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @03:16PM (#29717567)
> I'll even say that a significant chunk of adults think that the content in google info boxes comes from google, rather than from the site itself.

That's exactly why I consider those info boxes potentially problematic. If people trust Google and don't understand how the info box is formed, they will take it for an authoritative source which is exactly the problem with it. Google perhaps should not show those info boxes if they cannot stand behind the information presented within. Same thing with Alexa, if kids blindly trust it instead of treating it like snippets of text that happened to match on some page.. that's concerning.

> That seems like a pointless distinction. Do you think kids even know what a search engine is?

I don't know exactly how a kid views Alexa and how they view search engines. To them, is Alexa just a toy, just another way to look things up on the net, or is it something more? I certainly knew what search is, at the age of 10 (come on, searching is pretty much the first thing you learn to do online), but there was nothing like Alexa in my life.

The question is not do they know exactly what a search engine is, but how much do they "trust" (or what kind of authority do they attribute to) Alexa vs how much they trust the list of results in search. I think Alexa is more opaque than a list of search results and there's a real possibility that kids would "trust" it (and also Google's info boxes etc.) more than they trust the obvious list of snippets of matching text on web sites. Obviously, there's no way to click Alexa for more context, or is there? It just blurts out "facts", not entirely unlike Google does with their info boxes. You don't get to judge whether these "facts" come from a sketchy site or forum or whatever else. Is "here's something I found on the web" sufficient to clue the kid on that it's just a search result and information taken out of context? I think there's some subtlety that might be harder to comprehend than in a list of clickable links with bolded snippets of text.

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by shkkmo on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @11:42AM (#29715321)
If the answer panels are stripping important safety information out in a way that endangers children? I would so say your should definitely report Google.
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by dcanelhas on Thursday December 30, 2021 @09:50AM (#29737128)
If you find that Google is returning suggestions leading to self-harm as "answers" to unrelated queries such as "what should I do today?", why not let CSPC investigate the issue?

I get the impression people are arguing against the idea of customer protection reviewing Google Search/Alexa out of fear for the continued existence of computers, computing, free speech, and open access to information. What do you believe is at stake here? Do you believe they're going to shut down the internet?

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by zamfi on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @01:54AM (#29711198)
Wouldn't that make the search engine the hazard, not the computer itself?
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by emodendroket on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @01:55AM (#29711209)
I can't really see a principled distinction here; both devices are getting information from online search engines and presenting it to the user.
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by floatingatoll on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @02:06AM (#29711276)
The missing “principled distinction” is tied up in the user interface design choices that intersect with child safety concerns, even if equal content is presented to both means. Voice search and response has a very different intersection with child safety concerns than keyboard-browser search and response.

A voice assistant can be reasonably expected to be operated by a very young child, who would be responsive and trusting to verbal commands in an adult-like voice from it.

A keyboard computer with a search engine in a browser cannot reasonably be expected to be operated by a very young child, and would not be reasonably expected to issue spoken-verbal commands in response to queries.

The information content is a relevant factor in the former case but not the latter; keyboard use of search engines is not in-scope for evaluating the child safety risk of voice assistants, though it is certainly an interesting topic as well.

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by emodendroket on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @02:29AM (#29711389)
The child in question is 10, right? It doesn't sound credible that a 10-year-old child could not operate a search engine.
Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by floatingatoll on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @02:37AM (#29711419)
Whether or not a child is at risk from a browser search and result is not relevant to whether or not a child is at risk from a voice assistant search and result.

They are separate concerns and considering the browser case does not nullify the necessity of considering the voice assistant case.

For example, replace “10-year-old” with “3-year-old” (a simple and effective safety test for potential threat to children) and apply that test to both devices:

A) Could a 3-year-old child be reasonably expected to operate a keyboard-browser search and result interface? Could they be placed into danger by doing so?

B) Could a 3-year-old child be reasonably expected operate a voice assistant search and result interface? Could they be placed into danger by doing so?

The answers to A and B are not the same, because the threat models (to the child) are very different when “can read and type” is not taken for granted, as is implied for a 10-year-old. This is why the US has a safety commission to consider these things: common sense can hide critical threats to children that are invisible and unrecognized by well-meaning adults.

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by lawtalkinghuman on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @07:44AM (#29713228)
Good thing Amazon have never specifically marketed Alexa devices for kids.

Oh, wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNdZAgij-K0

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by floatingatoll on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @12:21PM (#29715752)
The question of the day for that video will end up being:

“In what ways do they restrict the available voice commands and results to protect children?”

And I bet it will be found that their interface allows never-reviewed-by-Amazon content to be read out loud to children, because Amazon loves to externalize human costs.

Re:Alexa suggests lethal challenge to child by shkkmo on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @11:46AM (#29715361)
The issue is that Alexa stripped important safety information out when summarizing the result. If a search engine does something similar (such as Google with their answers), I see no reason why the search engine shouldn't be reported the same way Alexa should be.