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Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by duxup on Sunday December 26, 2021 @09:44AM (#29692719)
> Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours

Welcome to public spaces?

Life involves maybe seeing things, idea, people you don’t like. That’s not inherently bad.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by berkes on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:35AM (#29693196)
Then why is Coca Cola allowed to promote their proven harmful sugar juices in that space, but am I not allowed to oppose that promotion in the same space?

What is allowed and tolerated in that public space is skewed, an unfair. Certainly not balanced.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by marklubi on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:42AM (#29693253)
> Then why is Coca Cola allowed to promote their proven harmful sugar juices in that space, but am I not allowed to oppose that promotion in the same space?

You are certainly allowed to. Pony up for the ad space if you want to promote the opposite, or advertise something else entirely.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by standardUser on Sunday December 26, 2021 @12:01PM (#29694076)
Selling harmful things is profitable. Opposing harmful things is expensive. Because of this asymmetric warfare, and because we are human beings more concerned about other human beings than concepts like brand awareness, it seems like regulating the messaging in pubic spaces makes sense.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by marklubi on Monday December 27, 2021 @02:06AM (#29700201)
> Selling harmful things is profitable. Opposing harmful things is expensive. Because of this asymmetric warfare, and because we are human beings more concerned about other human beings than concepts like brand awareness, it seems like regulating the messaging in pubic spaces makes sense.

Nothing I stated made any sort of judgement about whether or not something should or should not be advertised. The original statement (quoted in my previous response) was that someone opposed to an advertisement was "not allowed" to oppose that promotion.

Quite frankly, nobody should be in charge of regulating the messaging. That sounds like top-down control which does nothing but solidify the positions of people/organizations that are already in power and can afford to lobby for such regulations. It's often known as regulatory capture.

There are clearly groups of people that "oppose harmful things" (which is quite vague, but I digress), and have carved out parts of the market that agree with them (e.g., organic foods) and are quite profitable.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by berkes on Monday December 27, 2021 @05:57AM (#29701371)
I am not allowed to use Advertising Channels to defame a brand. I am not even allowed to mention a brand. At least, this is how it is in my country ("enforced" by Reclame Code Commissie) where a committee that oversees the Ad industry can prohibit advertisers from using that infrastructure.

Basically: if you propose a billboard saying "Coca Cola Is Proven[cite] Bad For Your Health" you won't be granted any space.

And even if you find a space not monopolized by such committees, you'll be taken to court by expensive lawyers over defamation or trademark infringment or any other silly thing.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by marklubi on Tuesday December 28, 2021 @12:48AM (#29710878)
> I am not allowed to use Advertising Channels to defame a brand. I am not even allowed to mention a brand. At least, this is how it is in my country ("enforced" by Reclame Code Commissie) where a committee that oversees the Ad industry can prohibit advertisers from using that infrastructure.

Perhaps you should reassess your messaging.

It seems to have become very en vogue over the past 5-10 years to just simply attack someone/thing that one doesn't like, as opposed to providing useful information and allowing people to make up their own mind, or putting the effort in to develop/provide an alternative.

Ultimately though, if your speech is being restricted, you have a government problem.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by DarylZero on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:56AM (#29693406)
This is war, ain't no rules. No such thing as "allowed."
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by duxup on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:38AM (#29693226)
It sounds like you just substitute what you don’t like for what want to see?

I don’t think that had anything to do with what I said.

Although I’m curious What would a not “skewed” public space looks like, and how do you manage that?

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by berkes on Monday December 27, 2021 @09:53AM (#29702913)
If I sounded like that, I should have spent more effort. Sorry.

What I was trying to bring across, is that it is "public space" which implies it equally belongs to everyone. But that this is not the case for what you are allowed to advertise. Corporations, or at least "those with connections and/or money" are allowed to be heard a lot more than anyone who lacks these connections or funds.

I call that "skewed". A fair and level "public space" would give anyone, regardless of how much money, connections or lawyers they have, the same ability to present their message.

I am not saying that this would always be a good thing; because this probably means far more advertising noise. It would probably turn our streets into a printed version of twitter. Ugh. I am trying to say that in order to make this less skewed, "those with money, connections and/or lawyers" should also not be allowed to use that public space to deliver their messages. That is a level playing field too!

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by rolph on Sunday December 26, 2021 @11:56AM (#29694030)
the whole point is you dont manage a public space, we do. the public space is a construct of what we allow it to be
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by drorco on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:45AM (#29693289)
I think there's never an end to it.

A paleo fan will think the same about a vegan/carbs ad, and so would an anti-vaxxer about a conventional health poster.

Harmful ideas can, and will reach those who are susceptible to it. I think the right way to oppose harmful ideas, is by gaining the education that would allow you, and others in society to judge such ideas.

The alternative of forbidding ads in public, is essentially censorship and making society even weaker as one way or another, harmful ideas will reach each and every one of us, and when they do, the less susceptible we are, the better.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by thepasswordis on Sunday December 26, 2021 @11:18AM (#29693627)
Because whoever owns the space where they're placing the billboard lets them?

What if coca cola decided that they didn't like the color of your house, should they be allowed to change it because it can be seen from the public space?

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by berkes on Monday December 27, 2021 @06:12AM (#29701461)
> What if coca cola decided that they didn't like the color of your house

I'm quite certain that if I painted my house white and red with silver curly letters on it spelling "Cola is Sugar" there'd be multiple laws that expensive lawyers can help enforce.

Those laws (trademark, libel, etc) practically grant large corporations from taking over public space. In my country there's committees (seated by advertising industry) that monopolize the space and enforce this in even greater detail. Hell, we even have committees that tell what color you are allowed to paint your front-door (Schoonheidscommitee). This latter, however, is democratically ruled (local govts) so something that Coca Cola has no seat in.

So the answer to your question is: yes. They already can, while the opposite is not possible.

But the question itself is actually a false dichotomy. Me being able to oppose Coca Cola on their own turf: by running a campaign against them, does not imply that Coca Cola can automatically then decide the color of my house.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by SyzygistSix on Sunday December 26, 2021 @12:06PM (#29694130)
Sao Paulo made all billboards and ads illegal. It's a thing. People can do it if they want. I'm pretty sure they don't allow billboards in some states in the US.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by ipaddr on Sunday December 26, 2021 @01:22PM (#29694918)
Alaska, Hawaii, Maine and Vermont
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by MomoXenosaga on Sunday December 26, 2021 @01:23PM (#29694923)
Seems Brazil still has its priorities straight.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by drorco on Sunday December 26, 2021 @10:27AM (#29693114)
It brings up an interesting question.

I live in Israel where there are constant conflicts about what is OK to be shown in public, especially between the religious and non-religious. In Jerusalem for example, some ultra-orthodox often vandalize any kind of poster that shows a woman in it. They just tear-out/spray over the women on the poster. Some are ridiculous cases where they defaced a poster of an old woman who survived the holocaust: https://www.timesofisrael.com/female-holocaust-survivors-por...

Even other groups could be pissed by posters that include things about women's hygiene or show models in swimsuits. In their eyes these are things they make a lot of effort to block from the eyes of their families, and having it in public breaches the culture and education they try to maintain. This is by itself interesting as public adverts can penetrate the most strict censorship that religious groups and cults maintain.

Seculars on the other hand can also be pissed about anti-abortion adverts, religious propaganda, scientology, etc. and ask for them to be banned.

As someone who's trying to be a "free-thinker" and tries to promote it, I think there's no point in hiding in a bubble, blocking yourself from seeing other ideas, even if they're crappy advertisements. All of this as long as the adverts/ideas fit within the aesthetics of the city they're in.

The risk of doing so is essentially losing free-thinking and some sort of communication with isolated social groups.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by b3morales on Sunday December 26, 2021 @02:13PM (#29695336)
Can we make a distinction between postings for different purposes, though? For example, commercial, political, and public education. Do a Coca-cola billboard, a sign advocating a piece of legislation, and a poster about the local library all get the exact same level of deference?
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by drorco on Sunday December 26, 2021 @04:16PM (#29696457)
Yes. There are laws in some countries for example that make the advertising of Tobacco illegal. That's a form of censorship people can say is reasonable, but it can also be a slippery slope towards harsher censorship around other things people might find harmful - the female body, sugar, gambling, abortion, meat, etc.

The question is if you want to give the government such a broad spectrum to censor, in which they'd start judging whether or not a product might be deemed potentially harmful.

Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by user3939382 on Sunday December 26, 2021 @12:14PM (#29694196)
Without getting into the politics of the personhood (or lack thereof) of corporations, we can say at least that it's not quite that simple since there have been places (is Sao Paulo one?) that have banned outdoor advertising. That means the representatives of the people there came to a consensus that corporate marketing is not on equal footing with the expression of other ideas.
Re:You block ads in your browser, why not in your city? by MomoXenosaga on Sunday December 26, 2021 @01:17PM (#29694863)
Street musicians. Draaiorgels (youtube it but keep your finger close to mute). Protestors. Homeless. Tourists. English tourists. Pigeons.

Why do we live in a city again?