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Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by noduerme on Thursday December 23, 2021 @06:34AM (#29660865)
> Some people need to be rich

See the comment I responded to below. I have a hard time with that mentality, but I get it.

> I need to be craftsman

I relate to this so much. Most of my best friends are mechanics, cooks, butchers, musicians. I actually only have one friend who's a programmer, and he's a craftsman too... I know him because we drunk-coded at the same bar for a couple years. People look at programming and don't get it...(yet - they don't understand yet, in 2021, but they will in 2040) ...that it's a clock maker's job. One friend who's a mechanic builds his own engines - just glorious, gleaming machines, one piece at a time. One time I was in his shop taking a distributor apart and said my job is like this, and he looked at me like I'm nuts. No, it's like this. Taking things apart to see how they work, and figuring out how to put them together. Lines of code are just like screws and weights and this thing that flies around the middle, distributing spark, that's like a for/next loop.

My Dad was a lawyer and he said, when I was a kid, "poor people work with their hands, rich people work with their minds." Well, I told him when I was 13 I would rather make something with my hands because it's honest. Programming, done right, is honest work - no better or worse than a creative mechanic's job. And it can be very artisinal in a way that satisfies your aesthetic sense and your sense of a job done beautifully. I don't think lawyers get that type of satisfaction.

Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by jaynetics on Thursday December 23, 2021 @06:56AM (#29660985)
Imagine if we took "onboarding" as seriously as clock makers used to.

Working with a master for a few years to learn the craft, step by step, always under an experienced gaze.

Or conversely, imagine what a clock would look like if it was cobbled together by someone who has just gone through a few weeks of clock-making bootcamp. I feel this is what some of our software looks like.

Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by noduerme on Thursday December 23, 2021 @07:35AM (#29661217)
My girlfriend is doing code bootcamp to try to have an option outside of her current job. I do know one girl who did it a couple years ago, who was a bartender and is now writing frontend React for Nike and making six figures. My GF's very smart, and I want to encourage her, but I don't think it's going to work. She's not a watch-maker. She's good at people. Here's my glossy view on this. Everyone wants this glamorous job now of being an engineer. But you have to be a fuckin obsessive OCD geek to look at a shitpile of cat output and be like what the fuck went wrong here, I can't stop, sleep or eat until I figure it out. It's okay. Not everyone can or should make watches. How do you train them..? Put them in the woods with StackOverflow and give them something impossible.
Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by vidarh on Thursday December 23, 2021 @05:11PM (#29667089)
There are plenty of good jobs for people who are good with people and know there basics of how to code, though, so that may well work out well for her even if she doesn't end up enjoying full on development.
Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by ChrisMarshallNY on Thursday December 23, 2021 @07:07AM (#29661043)
I believe that the problem is that the software development industry is completely built around engineers, staying at companies for two years or less. There’s lots of reasons for this. I think a lot of those reasons are cultural (SE culture, not nationality).

I stayed at my last company for almost 27 years. When I mention that in venues like HN, it’s usually mocked, and I’m basically called a “chump,” for doing it.

Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by noduerme on Thursday December 23, 2021 @07:24AM (#29661153)
My only exposure to this weird, desperate, corporate ladder-climbing culture is via HN. It freaks me out to hear the lives coders are living inside these places, because it bears literally no resemblance to the way I articulate code or think about my job. I basically come here for the spectacle. I've been freelance since the first dot-com collapse in '98. I just come here to hear how $megacorp[$x] is abusing people. That being said, I always worry what if I had to go back to work for one...

I get a sense that you exist like myself, and other coders I've known, outside the furious competition for status in a FAANG, doing our own thing and crafting our own art. It's kinda calming and peaceful to watch from the grandstands while the central rat race shit show goes on.

[edit] I was also banned from here for 8 years for personally insulting the founder, who encourages and finances, uh, certain stereotypical corporate rat race bullshit.

Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by ChrisMarshallNY on Thursday December 23, 2021 @09:24AM (#29662071)
A few years ago, I went to a dinner, hosted by Facebook. They were recruiting devs, and had a bit of an open house. I was curious about their operation.

The experience was fairly pleasant. I liked the people, but decided that the company wasn't really one that I wanted to join.

I was talking to one of the managers, there, and he boasted that he had been at Facebook longer than at any other company in his career. Since he was fairly young, I was curious.

"How long is that?" I asked.

"Twenty-seven months!" he proudly stated.

Re:Regulators Shut Down Lending Platform (YC Alum) LendUp by ChrisMarshallNY on Thursday December 23, 2021 @06:57AM (#29660990)
I like your attitude. I feel we need more of it.