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Re:Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of... by gerdesj on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @07:14PM (#29657161)
"daily rates are now around 10 to 20 times what they were last year around the same time"

Really? 10 to 20x? That's 1,000 to 2,000% Here in the UK we've had suppliers collapse due to some "issues" involving not buying with fixed prices and end users like you and me get bills that are about 150% last year but not 1,000%.

We have (had) quite a lot of innovative suppliers that offered "green" tariffs that were backed by variable suppliers. Unfortunately the shit hit the fan and the price charged back in the day wasn't enough to cover the current rate plus enough profit to cover admin.

Re:Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of... by hagbard_c on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @07:34PM (#29657332)
Yes, really. The price of electricity is set through a controlled market mechanism at "Nord Pool", the electricity producers exchange for the Nordic countries. Nearly all producers and sellers have pages showing these prices, here's an example:

https://www.vattenfall.se/elavtal/elpriser/timpris-pa-elbors...

and another:

https://elen.nu/dagens-spotpris/se3-stockholm/

Timpris på elbörsen (on the first site, "vattenfall") means "hourly rate on the electricity exchange". Have a look at the rates for area 3 - Södra Mellansverige (south of the middle of Sweden) and compare with the same day last year ("jämför med - Samma dag föregående år"). You'll see that the rates average some 500 öre (5 sek, about $0.55) per kWh excluding taxes, levies, surcharges and value added tax. At the same day last year the rate averaged about 20 öre, i.e. a difference of 2500%. The rates fluctuate hourly and the last few weeks they've broken all records. The increase for the last month was +245%, averaged over the whole year rates have doubled.

[edit]

Nord Pool have their own reporting on prices:

https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/Market-data1/#/nordic/table

Re:Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of... by gerdesj on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @08:11PM (#29657570)
I'm still trying to work out the numbers.

I'm quite surprised that Scandinavia is having even more problems than say the UK because you have rather a lot of useful topological features (really big hills and mountains and lakes at elevation - ie potential energy). You are also closer to the Ukraine than us for gas so that should be cheaper too.

Our consumer energy market is a bit strange. We have a national grid for eleccy and then have multiple "suppliers" who supposedly compete. The ones who went balls out have gone bust. They generally offered fixed and flexible rates based on the wholesale cost plus their margin. Then the wholesale cost went up rather a lot and they lost their margin and without money in the bank, they went bust. The govt agency for energy then enforced other suppliers to take us on. So I was a customer of "Green" and now I'm a customer of "Shell Energy". You can be sure that Shell are not losing out in any way 8)

I've just noticed that you use the term Nordic countries - is that a better/preferred term to use than Scandinavia?

Re:Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of... by richiebful1 on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @10:28PM (#29658341)
The Nordic countries include Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland and Finland

Scandanavia includes Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. The common factor there is having closely related languages and cultures. However, speaking from experience as an American, we often use "Scandanavian" as a synonym of "Nordic".

Nord Pool covers all the Nordic countries plus a lot more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Pool

Re:Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of... by hagbard_c on Thursday December 23, 2021 @09:30AM (#29662126)
We're not surprised by these problems because we saw them coming, it's just really disheartening to see the expected negative downfall of the policies enacted by the "green" party and its followers. Add to this the fact that this party hardly has any support - they are currently underneath the 4% limit and will most likely disappear from Riksdagen (the Swedish parliament) and it becomes even more incongruous that they have been allowed to have such an extraordinary negative effect on the future energy supply in this country. To add insult to injury they recently stepped out of the coalition (between the "green" "miljöpartiet" (which means "environmental party")) and the social democrats, less than a year before the coming elections. They're now in supposed opposition, acting as if the negative effects are all someone else's fault. May they never reach the threshold again so that those who care for the environment stop believing this party is the one to vote for.
Re:Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of... by Terry_Roll on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @10:09PM (#29658229)
10-12 years ago the UK govt signed deals with some companies that would be building the new nuclear power plants ie EDF that they would be getting a minimum price for generation which was double what it was back then. I often think we dont have a free market but a clever fixed pricing market. UK is also windiest country in the world hence all our wind turbines. Dont know if more Electric Mountains will be built to buffer the surplus wind power as more turbines come online, but the bigger the turbine the more that is generated which is the natural progression we are seeing.

Little know fact kept out of the media when we had all the flooding over winter a few years back, one nuclear power station had to be shutdown to avoid a meltdown caused by flooding.

Electricity consumption has gone up with the increase in consumer gadgets, ie computers, tablets, mobiles, big massive flat screens, sound systems ie personal cinema setups, its only natural to see electricity demands go up.

And there is not enough of some of the rare earth materials and other metals used to make or maintain electric cars on the planet unless some miners have been keeping deposits secret, so I expect some miners share prices to go up considerably in the future.

Re:Germany is closing half of its reactors before the end of... by stjohnswarts on Thursday December 23, 2021 @12:37AM (#29658998)
If that were true here in the USA my bill would go from $200 in the winter to $2000. I could afford that but poor people would just have to turn off the heat and suffer and some of them die, so this seems..... like there's more to the story.