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Re:Bottles: GUI front end to run Windows software on Linux by shatteredgate on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @11:55PM (#29645731)
I think you are misusing the word "doublespeak", I would suggest against using that word. There are some technical reasons why tweak tool will not work anymore but you can still use gtk.css and GTK_THEME, see here: https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2021/09/18/the-truth-they-a...

Worst case it is the same as KDE, you have to set some environment variables and it still may not work correctly with some apps because third-party theming is inherently unreliable. The tweak tool method was also an unsupported third-party thing with most of the same limitations. It has been in a broken state for a while but you probably just didn't notice it because you weren't unlucky enough to end up in a situation where it affected you.

I'd still like to emphasize my other comments though, third-party theming is quite broken on every single platform I've ever used and I suggest against using it if you want to avoid apps randomly breaking. If you plan to continue that route then you may have to get more involved in development to the point where you can fix theme bugs and patch the apps without asking other people for help. That's been my experience with third-party themes anyway, they are essentially hacking the apps and so are not really for average users to mess with.

Re:Bottles: GUI front end to run Windows software on Linux by _2paq on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @12:14AM (#29645824)
> The tweak tool method was also an unsupported third-party thing with most of the same limitations.

Interesting, so what was and is the supported first party method to change themes and set keyboard shortcuts and use Emacs keybindings and make the Caps Lock key behave as Esc on GNOME?

Re:Bottles: GUI front end to run Windows software on Linux by shatteredgate on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @12:20AM (#29645850)
AFAIK there has never been an officially supported way to set those in the GNOME GUI and that's true of everything else in the tweak tool including the themes, that's why they're technically in "use at your own risk because this can break everything and mess up your apps" territory. Those are only implemented as hidden settings that the tweak tool modifies. Not sure about other desktops, XFCE might have a GUI to set them.
Re:Bottles: GUI front end to run Windows software on Linux by _2paq on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @12:45AM (#29645968)
Interesting, I'll remember this the next time someone tells me to just use GNOME Tweak Tool to use Emacs keybindings or change the theme or keyboard shortcuts because they're unsupported features and maybe disabled anytime without notice, despite the apparent impression most people seem to be under when they use GNOME Tweak Tool.
Re:Bottles: GUI front end to run Windows software on Linux by shatteredgate on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @07:52AM (#29648596)
Yes, you should also remember that when using third-party KDE themes like qt5ct, or hidden KDE settings, or anything else really that wasn't intended by the developer. In my experience with all of those settings, they do work sometimes but with certain apps they can break. That's mostly what unsupported means. I've already said my piece on themes but with keyboard shortcuts, the app can set key bindings that conflict with those and then you'll end up with a broken app again. It's a bad idea to use those settings unless you're willing to revert them at a moment's notice when they break some apps, or unless you're ready to become a developer and fix some of the underlying issues that are causing the breakage.

>despite the apparent impression most people seem to be under when they use GNOME Tweak Tool

I'm not sure what that impression is, GNOME Tweak Tool has always been this way. Other desktops like XFCE can of course expose the setting and make it supported but that's only guaranteed to work with XFCE apps that they've designed to work with that setting.

Re:Bottles: GUI front end to run Windows software on Linux by _2paq on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @02:28PM (#29653883)
> Yes, you should also remember that when using third-party KDE themes like qt5ct, or hidden KDE settings

I don't have much skin in the game to be honest because I've given up on using any GUI apps on Linux wherever possible. If I do use GUI apps, I keep looking for ways to quit using them too. The attitude exhibited by GTK and GNOME developers on their issue trackers and the unstable nature of KDE apps on Wayland has made me cynical about GUI on Linux.

I wouldn't know how to differentiate between "supported" and "unsupported" features on GNOME. If basic features like changing keyboard shortcuts are "unsupported" on GNOME, I'm not sure who the target audience of such a DE is, except maybe grandmas, managers, and people with attention deficit issues. Then again, I fail to see why such people would bother with using Linux in the first place.

And yeah, I would use KDE apps but they're almost unusable on swaywm on Wayland so I've stopped using them as well.

I'll focus on creating and using only command line tools and TUIs. Unlike the GUI mess that we have, they are mostly platform independent and can be used almost anywhere.

It was nice talking to you. Thanks for your time.

Re:Bottles: GUI front end to run Windows software on Linux by shatteredgate on Wednesday December 22, 2021 @03:26PM (#29654666)
>The attitude exhibited by GTK and GNOME developers on their issue trackers and the unstable nature of KDE apps on Wayland has made me cynical about GUI on Linux.

I think you're misinterpreting the attitude, or rather that attitude is the same anywhere. GTK and GNOME developers might just be more honest about it, they're fairly limited in what they can do so they can't really fix every single issue on the tracker in a timely manner. That attitude is the same thing with KDE, they have limited time and so can't stabilize things as fast as they'd like. I'd say use Windows or MacOS if you want an OS that is stable and don't want to deal with the limitations of Linux, it's quite far behind on the desktop, and using things like i3wm or swaywm is putting it even further behind because those don't comprise a complete desktop.

>And yeah, I would use KDE apps but they're almost unusable on swaywm on Wayland so I've stopped using them as well.

The problem there is the same, nothing is really native to swaywm or i3wm so you'll probably find that most apps suffer usability issues on them. That's been my experience with third party window managers. If you like KDE apps you probably should use KDE for the most reliable experience.

>I'll focus on creating and using only command line tools and TUIs. Unlike the GUI mess that we have, they are mostly platform independent and can be used almost anywhere.

TUIs have a number of other issues so I can't really suggest those either, you're forgoing a lot by making them. There are no perfect options for platform independent GUIs, everything is a trade off. I would personally suggest making web apps or Electron apps before I would suggest TUIs.